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Brexit

Started by chemicaloverload, January 15, 2019, 21:03:32

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chemicaloverload

January 15, 2019, 21:03:32 Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 16:04:32 by dsanchez
Theresa Mays face being told there will be a vote of no confidence debate in parliament tomorrow  :lol:
Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves

word_on_a_wing

ChemicalOverload can you help me understand the negative sentiments towards Teresa? 
Wasn't Brexit voted by the UK population to proceed? And so wasnt she trying to uphold what was voted?
I recall you compared her to M.Thatcher but have yet to fully understand it
...thanks for enlightening me 🙂
"Where the flesh meets the spirit world,
Where the traffic is thin..."

Ulrich

I'll give it a try, hopefully chemicaloverload will elaborate a bit too...

Quote from: word_on_a_wing on January 16, 2019, 11:09:51
Wasn't Brexit voted by the UK population to proceed? And so wasnt she trying to uphold what was voted?


First of all: there was a referendum, yes. But: on that day it was raining cats and dogs, so many people stayed at home thinking "majority will vote against Brexit anyway". Thus, the result was not what the people really wanted.
Second: most of Scotland & Northern Ireland voted against Brexit. Thus, there is a real danger of these regions deciding to leave the "United Kingdom" after all...
Then there are the empty promises (money saved will be given to the NHS), the unclear future (e.g. will there have to be a "border control" between Ireland and Northern Ireland?) etc. etc.

I've talked to some people, most of them musicians - they are all against Brexit and fear the uncertainty (what if they will have to pay for visa to come over to mainland Europe for their tours?)...
Even the pro-Brexit people in May's party were "unhappy" with the contract she presented. Hence her loss of the vote last night.

In short: this is a disaster from start to finish. A complete failure on the political side - and then they wonder when people are fed up about politics in general?  :pouting-face
Can't you see I try? Swimming the same deep water as you is hard...

chemicaloverload

Quote from: word_on_a_wing on January 16, 2019, 11:09:51
ChemicalOverload can you help me understand the negative sentiments towards Teresa? 
Wasn't Brexit voted by the UK population to proceed? And so wasnt she trying to uphold what was voted?
I recall you compared her to M.Thatcher but have yet to fully understand it
...thanks for enlightening me 🙂


WOAW, Scotland did not vote for brexit and we most certainly don't vote for May. Almost 2 thirds of Scotland voted to stay. She has wasted two years doing nothing, with zero effort and because of this incompetence, she couldn't negotiate a good deal to leave, leaving all of us in limbo. As it stands, we don't have a workable deal. We don't know what's going to happen to the customs union, free movement of EU nationals and the Northern Irish border. That is why she was voted down in parliament yesterday because it is a shambles. Shes done nothing for two years. The EU have told her there's no more negotiations to be had, so we are stuck. It's appauling. I know I've just repeated most of what Ulrich said(thank you my dear, nicely put), but we are in a serious bind and people are scared and we've been scared from day 1. I think only 3 million voted on the referendum in total?

She needs to bolt. That's not going to happen just now but seriously, she needs to go. It's embarrassing.

Also, this vote was meant to happen in December, thus wasting another month doing f all.
Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves

dsanchez

Quote from: Ulrich on January 16, 2019, 12:02:50
will there have to be a "border control" between Ireland and Northern Ireland?


there's already one in place :)
2019.06.08 Dublin
2019.07.04 Novi Sad
2019.07.17 Athens

Ulrich

Thanks @chemicaloverload for the explanation.  :smth023

Quote from: dsanchez on January 16, 2019, 15:47:49
Quote from: Ulrich on January 16, 2019, 12:02:50
will there have to be a "border control" between Ireland and Northern Ireland?


there's already one in place :)


Where? When?

I'm not a big fan of Wikipedia, but for a quick check it's good:
QuoteBorder markings are comparatively inconspicuous, in common with many inter-state borders in the European Union. As both states share a Common Travel Area and are part of the European Single Market, the border is essentially an open one, allowing free passage of people since 1923 and of goods since 1993. There are approximately 270 public roads that cross the border. Following the Brexit vote, the future of the border is uncertain and its status is one of the key points in the UK withdrawal negotiations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland%E2%80%93United_Kingdom_border
Can't you see I try? Swimming the same deep water as you is hard...

dsanchez

Interesting finding. Since Northern Ireland belongs to the UK and Ireland does not, I thought there was a passport control like when arriving from outside the UK to e.g. Edinburgh or London.
2019.06.08 Dublin
2019.07.04 Novi Sad
2019.07.17 Athens

chemicaloverload

No David, its free a border, part of an agreement after the troubles
Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves

Ulrich

Quote from: dsanchez on January 16, 2019, 16:00:04
Interesting finding. Since Northern Ireland belongs to the UK and Ireland does not, I thought there was a passport control like when arriving from outside the UK to e.g. Edinburgh or London.


Nope, that's exactly the problem with UK (incl. Northern Ireland) leaving the EU and Ireland remaining.
Can't you see I try? Swimming the same deep water as you is hard...

dsanchez

Quote from: chemicaloverload on January 16, 2019, 16:01:31
No David, its free a border, part of an agreement after the troubles


means I go to Ireland (I need a visa, but it cost nothing) and then jump to Northern Ireland and then I will be in the UK and can move around (England, Scotland) without paying a 200 EUR tourist visa... but I would be in an irregular situation :( :P
2019.06.08 Dublin
2019.07.04 Novi Sad
2019.07.17 Athens

chemicaloverload

Haha, then get a wee boat to Stranrar and you'll be back in a familiar situation  ;)
Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves

MeltingMan

Quote from: word_on_a_wing on January 16, 2019, 11:09:51
can you help me understand the negative sentiments towards Teresa?


According to what CO has said I think there is another reason: the fact that TM rejects the
necessity of a second referendum. I have watched dozens of PMQs last year and lost finally
my interest. I'm sorry to say that but BREXIT has become the biggest cliché of our time. The
original plan was to reform the EU. That was Cameron's intention. It didn't work - yes - but
without a second referendum UK risk a civil war.
Au lieu de chercher Dieu dans les œuvres, nous
nous cherchons nous-mêmes. Notre paresse est
telle que nous préférons de basses impressions
aisées, qui nous diminuent, aux grandioses qui
exigent de l'effort.

Comment on devient artiste, esthétique. p. 235

word_on_a_wing


Thanks Ulrich, CO and MM for sharing your views :)

Quote from: Ulrich on January 16, 2019, 12:02:50


... on that day it was raining cats and dogs, so many people stayed at home thinking "majority will vote against Brexit anyway".



I bet many people must regret that decision!!

"Where the flesh meets the spirit world,
Where the traffic is thin..."

chemicaloverload

People feel like they were misinformed and lied to. A second referendum is a good idea in principle but it almost diminishes what we've went through for the last 2 years. A second Indy ref is what I want. We need to remove ourselves form this awful equation.

Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves

MeltingMan

Quote from: chemicaloverload on January 17, 2019, 08:44:01
People feel like they were misinformed and lied to.


The same here, CO. People from (North-)Africa and elsewhere came here with wrong ideas
and expectations. Before BREXIT it was clear that the EU was losing popularity in an unacceptable way.
All members have, on the other hand, similar problems (health service, domestic and sexual motivated
violence, lack of prospects for younger people etc.). This is something what we share - even more!
People must know or realize that the EU isn't a self-service shop. In a way BREXIT helps us to value
what we have and what we are actually losing.
Au lieu de chercher Dieu dans les œuvres, nous
nous cherchons nous-mêmes. Notre paresse est
telle que nous préférons de basses impressions
aisées, qui nous diminuent, aux grandioses qui
exigent de l'effort.

Comment on devient artiste, esthétique. p. 235