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The Cure to release new album end of 2019?

Started by dsanchez, February 02, 2019, 13:18:10

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word_on_a_wing

Quote from: chemicaloverload on June 19, 2019, 21:14:36Goth is a mindset.


If that's true then I'd be interested to know what would be a 'goth' mindset vs a non-goth mindset?
I've never connected with the term myself ...it feels like a concept, a way of labeling something or someone. ...pass
"Where the flesh meets the spirit world,
Where the traffic is thin..."

tanyasmith

Quote from: Ulrich on June 19, 2019, 08:54:12Robert (and those who know him) has often talked about how he stays up until the early hours of the day... but he does not do it because he thinks it is "goth", he does it because that's who he is. He happens to like wearing black, that's his taste - he does not do it because he wants to be "goth".

He happens to write songs which often tend to have a melancholy mood, to me that is not "goth" (maybe it is for others).

Also, Robert has mentioned that he never really liked the typical "gothic rock", so he can't be "goth", can he?

Yes, I know this Robert you're speaking of. It's one of the biggest reasons I love him. He won't sink into the labels people try to put on him, in fact turns it so that the joke is on them. I think it's funny when he tells reporters his main reason for wearing black is that it's flattering. Ha ha! Man, the way he goes these days wearing elastic-waisted, pull on shorts and an oversized cotton t-shirt. There's hardly anything left about him that connotes the unconventional rock star he was in his prime. I do wish to see him fit again and wearing those flower shirts again.

The impression I was getting about the new album early on was that he was going through a dry spell. It's one of the worst feelings in the world to feel like you have to make something incredible out of a rock that can't be naturally molded, but I have faith in The Cure's delivery, and there is something to love about every album, even if it is just that it's a new album. I'm so curious to know what their states of minds on things currently are, with all their years at it. That should be reflected in the new album. I know Robert has already admitted that his outlook has been bleak. C'mon, that's too simple considering the state of the world and how many people feel. Isn't there some contribution he can make as a leader, like with all his resources, isn't there something he can see and report back that has some hope? If not, that tells me he's going off the deep end, because even I can see so much hope and love and good to report. When we can release our egos enough it makes the view pretty clear as to why all the chaos in the world.

In terms of goth: I tried it for a few years. My goth phase was in tandem with my parents overly-traumatic divorce ("He waits to hear her say 'forgive,' but she just drops her pearl black eyes, and prays to hear him say 'I love you' but he tells no more lies...)" and the aftermath. After Wild Mood Swings, I gave away everything I had of The Cure except for a few items. I missed Blood Flowers and 4:13 Dream (makes me realize that was my key number this morning at a day spa I go to, but I didn't relate it until now) so am pretty excited to be full force again for The Cure for this new release.

I've noticed at Cure shows that some of The Cure's most devoted fans seem to be simple and unpretentious (there's goth devotees, too, I know). Probably the biggest fan I met, a small, blonde woman from Arkansas with really tall sons, just wore blue jeans and a white t-shirt. She had been following them for many, many years, met Robert at a hotel after a show some years ago. Robert recognized her at the show I waited in line with her at, in Chicago in 2016. Here's the picture of him remembering her.

Ulrich

Quote from: chemicaloverload on June 19, 2019, 21:14:36Goth is a mindset.

I tend to agree. I don't like the cliché of "goth" - but I always had sympathy for the "outsiders": those who are wearing black (when most others wear bright colours), those who admit they are sad/melancholy (when others think they should be happy), those who listen to "different" music (not what's on radio/charts/telly).

I believe what Simon meant was Robert living "the lifestyle" he prefers - I don't think Simon wanted to "sell" anything. He was just trying to tell that Robert is "for real" and not a cliché.
(Still, I completely understand that Robert tries to distance himself from any "movement" or "tpyical goth". I mean, he likes Disneyland and Christmas, that's not for the typical "goths"...)
If only I'd thought of the right words...

Ulrich

Quote from: tanyasmith on June 20, 2019, 02:02:32Yes, I know this Robert you're speaking of. It's one of the biggest reasons I love him. He won't sink into the labels people try to put on him...
I do wish to see him fit again and wearing those flower shirts again.

I agree with the first part (of this quote). However, the Banshees called him "fatboy Smithy" (in fun, probably) back in the 1980s, so I guess he never really was the "fit rockstar"... (and I love him for that, too)!

Quote from: tanyasmith on June 20, 2019, 02:02:32... there is something to love about every album, even if it is just that it's a new album.

Yeah, especially after 10+ years!

Quote from: tanyasmith on June 20, 2019, 02:02:32I'm so curious to know what their states of minds on things currently are, with all their years at it. That should be reflected in the new album.

Personally, I don't think that will ever happen. It never was The Cure's intention to "make a statement" or comment on the state of the planet or whatever. Robert's songs/lyrics have mostly been about (his) mood or melancholy feelings... or inspired by literature; but not his "general" state of mind.
Plus: I don't think he ever saw himself as "a leader".
If only I'd thought of the right words...

MeltingMan


I'm sorry if I get off the subject, but Goth and Gothic are not one and the same. Goth refers to the group of people (of Germanic descent) who occupied the Roman Empire between the third and fifth centuries. Gothic, on the other hand, refers more to the architecture and language of Western Europe in the Middle Ages. We should keep that apart (source: Pocket Oxford English Dictionary).
Don Juan, malgré la pauvreté de la ma-
tière où il s'efforce, touche à l'Abstrait par
une conception de la femme que ni l'Orient
ni les modernes n'ont osé formuler.

TYPHONIA, XIᵉ roman de l'Ethopée

the thread of a dream

Well Robert did mention that he tends to write when he is in a kind of sad mindset, and writing happy songs are a bit harder to write. I personally think the 'goth' tag on Robert is kind of funny, yes they made 2 or 3 'goth' albums, (like faith and pornography, possibly disintegration, but in my in opinion, that's a whole different world). They probably tag The Cure as goth because they did come from Post-punk, which kind of branched off into the 'goth' scene. I mean, what I love that The Cure take the  kind of 'piss' out of it and mess around with reporters or deny it, because they think it's so stupid. I mean the Cure aren't goth to me, but to someone who doesn't know The Cure, and saw an image of The Cure or listened to "One hundred years" , they probably would think of them as goth. But then again, they can be 'bubble gum' pop, "Just Like Heaven" and their other hit songs. But Robert does wear heavy eye-makeup, and does have messy hair, same with Simon, (in '85-ish anyway) but they weren't trying to be goth, Robert just wanted to emphasise his eyes onstage, and well, I'm not sure why he back combs his hair... (to make him more zany- and wacky?) They did crimp their hair for a bit actually... and Robert does tend to wear black now (self conscious...?, also I agree, I miss the dotted and floral shirts too) but The Cure to me aren't goth, they are their own genre, because one minute you are listening to a sad song, an angry song, and then a happy one. As Lol said, "We didn't fit in- I'm glad we didn't". Honestly the Cure are so otherworldy they should be their own genre. But then there is the other story of did they create "shoegaze"...
☆Slit the cats like cheese!
Then eat the sweet sticky things! ☆

Ulrich

Quote from: MeltingMan on June 20, 2019, 12:19:14I'm sorry if I get off the subject, but Goth and Gothic are not one and the same.

That's right, but what we're talking about here is "gothic" in the sense of a musical style and kind of a "youth movement" (or whatever you wish to call it); according to the cliché: the ones who dress in black, are depressed all day and listen to the so-called "gothic rock" (look it up on wiki or whatever, to find the "typical" bands).
This is usally abbreviated to "goth" (the style) or "goths" (when describing the persons).

For more on the meaning of the word(s):
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/de/worterbuch/englisch/gothic

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/gothic

In German:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_(Kultur)
Quote from: undefinedDie Anhänger der Gothic-Kultur werden länderübergreifend als Goths bezeichnet, obgleich diese Bezeichnung innerhalb der Szene eher selten Anwendung findet...

Als sich der Punk Ende der 1970er Jahre in verschiedene Genres aufspaltete, gingen daraus der Death Rock und der Gothic Rock hervor; Punk-Bands wie The Stooges und The Damned übten auf die Entwicklung der Gothic-Musik wesentlichen Einfluss aus. Entgegen mancher Aussagen war Gothic jedoch keine gezielte Abspaltung vom Punk. So verstanden sich viele Gothic-Bands selbst noch als Teil der Punk-Bewegung und nicht als Initiatoren eines neuen Genres...
If only I'd thought of the right words...

MeltingMan


Assuming the new album actually appears in the fall and is "darker" than its predecessors, then it deserves to be called gothic (and not goth). But I understand what you mean. 😉
Don Juan, malgré la pauvreté de la ma-
tière où il s'efforce, touche à l'Abstrait par
une conception de la femme que ni l'Orient
ni les modernes n'ont osé formuler.

TYPHONIA, XIᵉ roman de l'Ethopée

tanyasmith

Quote from: Ulrich on June 20, 2019, 11:13:06
Quote from: tanyasmith on June 20, 2019, 02:02:32Yes, I know this Robert you're speaking of. It's one of the biggest reasons I love him. He won't sink into the labels people try to put on him...
I do wish to see him fit again and wearing those flower shirts again.

I agree with the first part (of this quote). However, the Banshees called him "fatboy Smithy" (in fun, probably) back in the 1980s, so I guess he never really was the "fit rockstar"... (and I love him for that, too)!

Quote from: tanyasmith on June 20, 2019, 02:02:32I'm so curious to know what their states of minds on things currently are, with all their years at it. That should be reflected in the new album.

Personally, I don't think that will ever happen. It never was The Cure's intention to "make a statement" or comment on the state of the planet or whatever. Robert's songs/lyrics have mostly been about (his) mood or melancholy feelings... or inspired by literature; but not his "general" state of mind.
Plus: I don't think he ever saw himself as "a leader".


The British press called him Toad Stool and Fat Bob during times. His weight has fluctuated many times throughout his career, from fit to fat. I hope to see him getting more fit again. He does look like he's fitter now than he's been in a while. I'm deeply into health and nutrition and want to see him healthy! <3

I understand that the albums reflect moods, but I do think Robert's state of mind can be perceived through a lot of the songs, too. "We always have to go back to real lives..." That reflects that he doesn't believe bliss can last forever. "To Wish Impossible Things" reflects that he thinks there are limits to wishes coming true.I love that side of him, the grounded, steadfast side, but it's ironic that he's a rockstar (billions of peoples dreams) and still thinks there are wishes he has that can't come true?

I don't think Robert wants to project himself as a leader, but he's a leader. He has influence. He's been ambivalent about his public role, doesn't like to discuss his personal views about politics, but he has come out at times to express his views anyway. What made me sad recently was an article I read put out by the Guardian, where Robert showed tentativeness about speaking on his views. He didn't think the British people (outside of the fans) respected him enough for his voice to make a difference.


word_on_a_wing

Tanya, I'd be more interested in hearing YOUR thoughts on Cure-related things (and the perspective of all other forum members too!) rather than your guesses on HIS thoughts (which you actually could never know what they really were/are).

Whenever anyone talks in a way like they're speaking for someone else (ie "when he said ___ he was thinking/feeling/meaning ___") it kinda bugs me. Actually it can't be known what the other was thinking/feeling/meaning ...unless you have the ability to time-travel and mindread !
"Where the flesh meets the spirit world,
Where the traffic is thin..."

tanyasmith

Quote from: word_on_a_wing on June 21, 2019, 04:03:03Tanya, I'd be more interested in hearing YOUR thoughts on Cure-related things (and the perspective of all other forum members too!) rather than your guesses on HIS thoughts (which you actually could never know what they really were/are).

Whenever anyone talks in a way like they're speaking for someone else (ie "when he said ___ he was thinking/feeling/meaning ___") it kinda bugs me. Actually it can't be known what the other was thinking/feeling/meaning ...unless you have the ability to time-travel and mindread !

Thanks for pointing this out, Word! I didn't realize I was speaking for Robert. I know I have my blind spots but wasn't sure what it was. I guess I do try to read his thoughts by interpreting his songs and what he says to the media. I do spend a lot of time thinking about Robert Smith and trying to figure him out. All I know is that I was so captured by him at 14 years old. I didn't know how to contain or how to express how much he meant to me. It's been both moving and hard to listen to and read about others who also love/loved him so much. When you're in your bedroom all by yourself and your walls are covered (even the ceiling) with collages, posters, and magazine and newspaper articles about Robert Smith and The Cure, it's easy to imagine that maybe someday you'll meet and marry Robert Smith, that maybe you're the one who loves him the most in the world. Now he's this grumpy old man wearing pull on, elastic shorts and I love him in a different way now. :-) Ha ha. Let me be clear that I don't assume I know what he's thinking, in fact I worry often that I've misread him completely (i.e. worrying about the implications of KaA) and that he'd totally be annoyed by me. He does seem to have that kind of personality that doesn't want to be figured out or read like a book, which is probably why I've dedicated so much of my life to trying to figure him out. God, what has changed since High School? I've always liked guys like that. I did let Robert go when I was 19, but got right back into him around my 37th birthday. I put a small poster of him from an old calendar I had of The Cure up on my office wall. A few months later I heard that they were going on tour. It was the first time I had money to see them, so I got tickets, one by one to 9 shows. I felt like I connected with him at  several of the concerts. I did things from the front row, like scream (he didn't seem to like that), stand on my chair, throw myself around cathartically until it seemed like he noticed me. In Charlotte, North Carolina, he gave a nod toward me when I danced in the aisle during Just Like Heaven and people from the audience came up and hugged me. It was surreal. He flirted with me in Just Like Heaven at Wembley at around 1:17 in this video. I'm deeply committed to my significant other and I totally respect that Robert is a married man, but it's been wonderful to feel like Robert finally knows who I am. I remember standing in the audience of the show in Mountain View, California, in the 7th row, wearing a floor length, blue silk dress, a rhinestone crown over a head of curls, and two, blue sparkly heart earrings glistening from my ears, and feeling like he was singing to me when he sang "a woman now standing where once there was only a girl." It really, really felt like he could see my expression and read my awe that I so related to what he was singing, but I didn't let myself believe that. I'm sure that was a universal experience that most women feel when he sings those lines, but here, this was real. Judge for yourself. Again, at 1:17 he looks directly at me, holding my camera up from the front row. I even zoomed in at this point, not knowing what was going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmRitGSqVIU

Picture is from Mountain View with my sweet Libra soulmateYou cannot see attachments on this board.You cannot see attachments on this board.

word_on_a_wing



😂wow ... yeah that's strange, it does look like he's looking right at you. Were you doing anything at that moment that caught his attention?

I have a theory that RS loves to feel loved (who doesn't!) ...so he seems to respond and appreciate when people are showering love in his direction. (Or maybe more generally showering love into the world?)

I actually had a dream last night that RS was on stage and a few children were approaching him and giving him money (!). I was watching and felt like encouraging them that they don't need to do that but they seemed intent on doing so.
I sometimes wonder about the unseen impacts ... Is it an energetic commodity that benefits the receiver (either in the present, or perhaps the future when this incarnation is completed?)
I hope though that those receiving such high volumes of love are not wanting to hold onto it for themselves, but are connected to a more expansive space (and so if one person is loving them it's one like love more generally is being shone into the world).  I think Bowie was like this, and I've had dreams of him kissing many people (in a way that on the surface may sound wierd, but to me it made complete sense what he was doing and was actually quite an enlightened and unattached thing), shining love into the world.

So YES! Love = good!
I can totally relate to RS having a strange ability to evoke strong loving feelings.  A few years ago I freaked out about it, and essentially cut-off from it because the feelings (or more my interpretation and response to them) were keeping me caught in a confused and stuck place.
But I've come to realise it's a good thing! it's love!  Now I embrace it, welcome the feelings when they arise, but also try to experience it in an unattached way and expand it. Like how creation allows a flower to be in bloom ...and the flower doesn't then just direct it's scent in one direction, it gives its scent without boundary or preference.

Umm...I think things went a bit off topic 😂
"Where the flesh meets the spirit world,
Where the traffic is thin..."

Ulrich

Quote from: MeltingMan on June 20, 2019, 14:36:33Assuming the new album actually appears in the fall and is "darker" than its predecessors, then it deserves to be called gothic (and not goth).

Erm, no? As I tried to explain above, here "goth" is just short for "gothic", so it means the same!

Also, in my humble opinion, the Cure have never sounded like the "typical" gothic rock, some people might call it that, but I guess Robert's term "doom and gloom" is much better anyway.
I'll just call it "Cure music". (Yes, to me The Cure is a category of its own!)
If only I'd thought of the right words...

MeltingMan

Don Juan, malgré la pauvreté de la ma-
tière où il s'efforce, touche à l'Abstrait par
une conception de la femme que ni l'Orient
ni les modernes n'ont osé formuler.

TYPHONIA, XIᵉ roman de l'Ethopée

tanyasmith

Quote from: word_on_a_wing on June 21, 2019, 07:35:22😂wow ... yeah that's strange, it does look like he's looking right at you. Were you doing anything at that moment that caught his attention?

I have a theory that RS loves to feel loved (who doesn't!) ...so he seems to respond and appreciate when people are showering love in his direction. (Or maybe more generally showering love into the world?)

I actually had a dream last night that RS was on stage and a few children were approaching him and giving him money (!). I was watching and felt like encouraging them that they don't need to do that but they seemed intent on doing so.
I sometimes wonder about the unseen impacts ... Is it an energetic commodity that benefits the receiver (either in the present, or perhaps the future when this incarnation is completed?)
I hope though that those receiving such high volumes of love are not wanting to hold onto it for themselves, but are connected to a more expansive space (and so if one person is loving them it's one like love more generally is being shone into the world).  I think Bowie was like this, and I've had dreams of him kissing many people (in a way that on the surface may sound wierd, but to me it made complete sense what he was doing and was actually quite an enlightened and unattached thing), shining love into the world.

So YES! Love = good!
I can totally relate to RS having a strange ability to evoke strong loving feelings.  A few years ago I freaked out about it, and essentially cut-off from it because the feelings (or more my interpretation and response to them) were keeping me caught in a confused and stuck place.
But I've come to realise it's a good thing! it's love!  Now I embrace it, welcome the feelings when they arise, but also try to experience it in an unattached way and expand it. Like how creation allows a flower to be in bloom ...and the flower doesn't then just direct it's scent in one direction, it gives its scent without boundary or preference.

Umm...I think things went a bit off topic 😂

I was surprised to realize he was looking at me, (if you watch him before he turns to me and starts smiling, you see him looking at other people in the audience, even sticking his tongue out at somebody playfully, so when he looked at me right after "I'll run away with you..." I had no idea what to do) but I held my camera steady. I think I tap into Robert Smith's energy as he taps into the energy in the audience and it can be a phenomenal experience when taking photos and videos. Lots of the videos I took really connected with him (that was me connecting with him through the lens). There's been a very positive response to Plainsong from Hawaii because it makes people feel really close to Robert (as they have expressed to me in the comments):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRCSmnGqvsU

I understand what you mean about his ability to evoke strong feelings. I'm happy for you that were able to distance yourself until you could channel the feelings in a healthy way. As a teen I had no filter and was completely obsessed, but as an older woman I feel more ability to turn on the filter when I need to or just take some steps back.

I like Bowie's music, particularly Starman and Sound and Vision, but was turned off by stories I heard of how promiscuous he was with young girls. I'm glad he found mature love with Iman.

Falling in love with famous people is such a common experience that I've spent many years thinking about it. It seems pretty simple. There's a famous artist, actor, musician, entrepreneur that a person connects with, like would probably get along with if they knew them in their real lives and that famous person is projected all over the world, so in a way they become as familiar as a parent or best friend or lover. They have no faults, look perfect, and it's easy to project that they'd never disappoint or hurt the person who loves them. 
Famous people tend to be more confident with themselves and are willing to take more risks than the average person. Like with Robert Smith, he's so self-expressive and if you look at most of the audience, they just stand there like stone, admiring Robert and the band. I don't think it's always the case, but maybe a lot of famous people are individuated or self-actualized? I've loved and idealized many people in my life and ultimately I came to realize that they were expressing something that I wasn't. As soon as I started expressing the qualities I was so drawn to in them, the idealization went away. I don't think I idealize Robert the way I used to. I do see him as human, but I still love him for being such a big influence in my life as I grew from a little girl into a woman.

I like how you say "Like how creation allows a flower to be in bloom ...and the flower doesn't then just direct it's scent in one direction, it gives its scent without boundary or preference."