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Exploring "Join The Dots"

Started by SueC, August 06, 2019, 14:28:23

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Ulrich

Quote from: SueC on January 25, 2020, 16:59:03I've taken those lyrics from genius.com, which also has the following citation from Robert Smith:  "When we started Bloodflowers in Christmas 1998, we wanted hard electro pop and did a handful of tracks, including Coming Up and Possession, that used loops and synth bass. We sat around taking various kinds of drugs, thinking, 'This is the future!' Suddenly in 1999, I had a road to Damascus moment. I thought, 'This is f*cking awful, this isn't The Cure.' I wrote Out Of This World and decided, 'This is what I want to do', because that song had more emotion than the six tracks we'd recorded up until that point. So we binned the other stuff - it's hard to kill six songs, because you're halfway there, but it was a decision that had to be made. The others thought I'd lost it, but coming back I proved them wrong!"

Interestingly, I've read other comments by the author which give a slightly different take; e.g. where he thinks Possession was a really good song.  I don't think Robert Smith is always a reliable witness - and few of us probably are, and we're liable to change our minds and our moods.  So, sometimes quite contradictory things are said.

Sometimes there are mis-quotes and misunderstanding too. And Robert Smith changing his mind, as well.

I guess he thought "Posession" was good enough to put it on "Join the dots"! Otherwise he'd just left it in the vault where it was. Same goes for "Coming Up", which ended up on some versions of the album.

Anyway, this is interesting, because I'm kinda looking back on the "Bloodflowers" period now.  :smth023
If only I'd thought of the right words...

SueC

Just in postscript to the following post where this sort of stuff was discussed earlier in this thread, here's a Crikey article that popped up again today: https://www.crikey.com.au/2020/01/24/environment-lsd-psychedelics/

It's a bit over-simplified, but interesting anyway.  And I had to laugh at this reader's comment:

QuoteDog's Breakfast
February 1, 2020 at 5:14 pm

"Hofmann's conviction that psychedelics bring users closer to nature is a trippers' trope that's easy to dismiss as woozy utopianism."

Ha yeah, except it isn't. 50 years later and the medical and scientific community are just opening their eyes.

I've often thought a major dose to the world's water supplies would solve most of our political problems, and consequently all other issues.

This 'otherness' and disconnectedness from each other and the world around us might be called a personal bubble. ScoMo is a perfect manifestation of this personal bubbledom, nothing getting in, nothing coming out and no concept or recognition or connection with any other.

This is actually my politics, I am less left or right than I am connected, wholly and always. All other states of mind are juvenile steps towards the fulfillment of the promise of adulthood. The bodies grow but the mind stays in this pupae stage, and due to the lack of connection with the other they never understand their unrealized state.

Sad.

Like I said in the original post, I have no personal experiences of this sort to contribute except an already atypical brain.  :lol:
SueC is time travelling

SueC

OMG IT'S A DANGLEBERRY

When 4:13 Dream arrived in the mail, I started another thread and got so immersed in it I forgot that there were two tracks left to go after Coming Up.

What is a dangleberry?  Well, we'll start with the Australian expression "dag" which literally is a shitty bit of wool on a sheep's bottom, but which is also used affectionately in this country to tease a person who tells "daggy" jokes, wears "daggy" clothes, or does other "daggy" things.  When I explained that to some Americans once, they laughed and said, "Oh, a bit like a dangleberry!" - that's for the literal meaning of "dag" and not its symbolic application - you could say that a dangleberry is a specific subset/potential component of a dag - and I'm using it symbolically here to refer to a bit I left dangling months ago and will now be tidying up. :angel

Two versions of Signal To Noise first - a track that was new to me when I got this CD set.

...and which I will be attending to shortly by adding to this post...
SueC is time travelling

MAtT

Hi Sue, just back-reading some of this thread. On the How Beautiful You Are lyrics you commented on a while ago, you may already be aware of this now, but they are based on a poem called 'The eyes of the poor' by Baudelaire:

https://aplaceforpeace.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/the-eyes-of-the-poor-by-charles-baudelaire/

As you see, they don't quite include the "no one ever knows or loves another" you find jarring at the end. I've always taken it to imply that to love someone completely is to understand them completely, and it's that which is impossible.
Cure anomalies on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/infov0y

Twitter: https://twitter.com/infovoy_v2

Blog on free will and consciousness: http://informationvoyeur.wordpress.com/

SueC

Hullo @MAtT:) 

Thank you for the link and also your own take.  I remember your comments on journalling on another thread where you were doing a recount of a mix tape.  :cool  Nice to "see" you here.

It's interesting to look at the differences between the original story and the re-telling.  That could be someone's project!  ;)
SueC is time travelling

MAtT

 :cool

And it's great to see your analysis and opinions. Keep up the good work!

 :smth023

Cure anomalies on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/infov0y

Twitter: https://twitter.com/infovoy_v2

Blog on free will and consciousness: http://informationvoyeur.wordpress.com/

SueC

Thank you, @MAtT! :)  It's occasionally nerve-wracking to write like this, because I'm well aware that a) I'm a recent Cure fan and don't have a lot of the back story, and b) this stuff means a lot to a lot of people and here I am opining through my own particular prism of experience, which I guess is all that any of us can do, but still it can be awkward, and c) I'm really just journalling in public, and sometimes that's a bit like you're on a nude beach, instead of in your own bathroom.  :1f633:

But generally, I'm enjoying the process because writing about it makes you look at it in so much more detail than not writing about it, and having skin in the game is the difference between being fully there versus just coasting along.

If you want to chime in with this stuff here in any way no matter how tiny or enormous, you're most welcome.  The vista really starts to expand when there's more than one pair of eyes to look through!  :cool
SueC is time travelling

MAtT

Hi Sue,

I don't think you need to have been a fan for a long time to have insight into the songs generally, though there are a (very) few cases where it helps to know some of the backstory to their influences and context in the history of the band.

Personally I've probably thought about the meaning of the lyrics less than I might have over the years. I love the music and the lyrical flow, neither of which necessitate any insight into what Mr Smith is waxing lyrical about! (I mean, I'm also a big Cocteau Twins fan, and many of their songs are sung in a made-up nonsense language!)

But it's really interesting to see your takes on them.

Which albums have you reviewed so far? I've read through Kiss Me and some of Join The Dots, but have you done any others? (I know, I know, there's a search facility!). If not I'll look forward to my faves: Pornography, Faith, and Seventeen Seconds...
Cure anomalies on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/infov0y

Twitter: https://twitter.com/infovoy_v2

Blog on free will and consciousness: http://informationvoyeur.wordpress.com/

SueC

Quote from: MAtT on June 25, 2020, 20:31:07Personally I've probably thought about the meaning of the lyrics less than I might have over the years. I love the music and the lyrical flow, neither of which necessitate any insight into what Mr Smith is waxing lyrical about!

Ah, so you look at it more like Brett does! :cool  I can do that when songs are sung in a language I can't understand, but not when things are sung in English - then I can't ignore them... and if I can't decipher some of the lyrics, it bugs me until I can...


Quote(I mean, I'm also a big Cocteau Twins fan, and many of their songs are sung in a made-up nonsense language!)

Do you like The Jabberwocky:)


QuoteWhich albums have you reviewed so far? I've read through Kiss Me and some of Join The Dots, but have you done any others? (I know, I know, there's a search facility!). If not I'll look forward to my faves: Pornography, Faith, and Seventeen Seconds...

Well, there's just the B-sides thread here, and the other one I started when I got 4:13 Dream in the mail after that, and now I'm up to the current new arrivals at our house, KMKMKM and The Head On The Door.  I wasn't on this forum when I first listened to various others we have, of which my favourite is Bloodflowers, that's the first Cure album I listened to start to finish and my jaw just hit the ground... it narrowly pips Disintegration for me.  We also have and like The Top and Wild Mood Swings, but aren't hugely fond of Japanese Whispers, although it has some good stuff on it too.  Brett had Bloodflowers, Paris, Show and a Best-Of when we met, and we have Trilogy and the most recent live films from 2018 (plus other stuff on YT).

So we've not looked at the ultra-early stuff yet, other than what we've heard live and on the B-sides.  I think I'm going to get Wish next and maybe the self-titled, which by the way Brett had been interested in after Bloodflowers but decided not to get after previewing it.  And then maybe an excursion to the more distant archaeological strata... :angel

I'm definitely going to keep writing about "new" things coming into my mailbox; I'm not sure if I'm going to back-track to the things I listened to earlier.  Who knows.  One might always get hit by a truck or struck by lightning etc.  :)
SueC is time travelling

MAtT

QuoteDo you like The Jabberwocky?

Ha! Yes, but I've not read it in an age!

I'll look forward to more analysis from you  :)
Cure anomalies on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/infov0y

Twitter: https://twitter.com/infovoy_v2

Blog on free will and consciousness: http://informationvoyeur.wordpress.com/