Musicians and attitudes...

Started by Ulrich, December 11, 2019, 16:52:01

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Ulrich

@SueC
Moved this question here from another topic:
QuoteWhat about you, @Ulrich - do you ever not buy music because you don't want to fund someone's attitude?  Do you prefer to give your money to better causes?  Do you read interviews before you leap in and start buying the back catalogue?  And conversely, have you ever bought albums and then seen someone interviewed and thought, "OMG!!!!"?
(Feel free to move this to another topic if you think it's warranted.)

Well, the answer is "No". I can't remember having done any of this. Back in the day (80's and 90's) I used to read lots of music papers anyway, so I knew the interviews already.  ;)

I found this similar discussion in other forums before and had to tell people that I was either lucky or maybe I just intuitively chose musicians (at least so far) who didn't go crazy and/or uttered "strange" sentences.

(Example? Okay: Morrissey. Never liked him right from the start, apart from maybe 2 Smiths songs. Now even fans are disgusted by his attitude and actions. Didn't happen to me so far with anyone.

Another example: Johnny Ramone. I was suprised to hear he was a big Reagan fan and rather leaning towards "the right", that's unusual for "punk rockers", but then again: in a democracy that is totally okay and he was entitled to have his opinion(s).)

Of course, over the years, there were bands I used to like and at some point just didn't listen to anymore (e.g. Sisters Of Mercy) or started to dislike because of their newer albums (e.g. Killing Joke, too "heavy metally" for my ears).

So far, none of my fave musicians has gone and killed someone or uttered disgusting nonsense, which I'm kinda happy about.
Of course, some of 'em might've done stupid things (when drunk or "under the influence" of substances), including things I wouldn't find "tasteful" if I'd been present then and there, but I tend to "forgive" them (as long as the music remains good to my ears).

Another example: I read bad things about Hugh Cornwell (ex Stranglers frontman), apparently he wasn't always kind to fans (e.g. saying "I just come off stage, can you wait a little bit before asking me for autographs?" or something along these lines). When I met him after a gig (he was selling his merch himself), the couple behind me got "told off" for filming him with a laptop ("you could've asked me before filming me!") and I could see his point. He was very kind to me though, even reminded me that he could sign the stuff I'd just bought (I'd almost forgotten). :happy
It's never enough...

SueC

Yeah, I can really understand Hugh Cornwell getting miffed by the fans filming him with a laptop.  I think respectful treatment has to go both ways, and that people should be able to object to disrespectful treatment without that being painted as unkind - I mean, how kind is it to film someone without permission, even if technically you're allowed to do that in a public place?

I saw a recent interview with him, actually, and came away with the impression that he's a decent bloke, just from the things he was saying, and his manner and body language as well.  We both liked Golden Brown and a few other of their songs, and it was a bonus to see that really positive interview.   :smth023

Speaking of technology, one thing about that which drives me mad is watching all these people waving their phones high in the air and getting in other people's sightlines at gigs.  It decreases the enjoyment for other people, and I also have to question why it's so much more important to have some crappy footage and sound of a gig than to actually be fully in the moment and just enjoy the gig. There's plenty of live gigs on DVDs etc already that are officially filmed and available, for a lot of bands - why not watch those instead of some crappy clip you took?  It's like Instagram - it's like the photo of your breakfast is somehow more important these days than your breakfast.  :neutral-face

Yeah, about Morrissey, ditto.  And I also have to say, and this will surprise some people, that I think the Rolling Stones don't come across well in interviews - well, Mick Jagger anyway.  I wouldn't invite him to have a cup of tea at our place in a million years, I'd point him at the nearest coffee shop and get out the garlic cloves.

Generally, like in your case, most of the musicians whose music I've liked also tended to come across as friendly and level-headed, and to remain so over the ensuing decades.  The most notable exception to me was Bono, who started off OK but who started really grating on me in his interviews from about the late 80s, I suppose with U2 going "big time" - but I don't think that commercial success necessarily has that effect on people, because there are plenty of people who've not become grating as a result of making more than a good living out of music.  And I suppose this is in the same bucket as how anyone reacts to professional success etc.  I've known people who don't become insufferable if they achieve professional success, and also people who did become insufferable - e.g. an ex-schoolmate treating wait staff at a restaurant like dirt once he made a big salary - but he'd always had that in him, I think.

QuoteSo far, none of my fave musicians has gone and killed someone or uttered disgusting nonsense, which I'm kinda happy about.

ROFL!  :rofl  Yes, this is a good thing.  And also to realise that in small things, we all err from time to time and need to be understanding of each other (as well as whip our own attitudes into shape when circumstances require it).

I was listening to an interview with Nigella Lawson the other day, on a show where the guest talks and gets to play their favourite music.  She actually personally only likes music as a feelgood thing, not as a serious thing - she says if she wants to think and be serious, she reads a book, and music is something she has for dancing and feeling good.

Well, I like both books and music both for being serious and thinking, and also for feelgood effects.  I think both are important, and that books and music are thankfully big enough to accommodate both!

To go out with a song here - because this is the song I immediately thought of when I saw your new topic title:


;)
SueC is time travelling

Ulrich

Well, I gotta say I didn't like Mick Jagger much (back in the 80's and early 90's), I preferred Keith (he's "Mr Rock'n'roll" of course), but I looked at Mick with kinder eyes after a few good interviews (and seeing the Stones live in 2006)!  :cool

From someone who used to work behind the scenes at different venues, I heard that Bob Dylan really is an a..., or at least (in her kinder words) "if you like his music, I recommend never meeting him".  :lol:
It's never enough...

SueC

Bob Dylan is...an aardvark?  ...an autodidact? ...an android? ... :winking_tongue

There's many stories about Sinatra being a piece of work.  However, he has his uses - his music was famously employed by a New York teacher to play to students on detention, to discourage them from needing to come back again - and it worked very well, apparently...  :beaming-face
SueC is time travelling

Ulrich

Ok, I won't buy any Sinatra albums then... ;)

Quote from: SueC on December 12, 2019, 18:04:49Bob Dylan is...an aardvark? 

... an anarchist?  :P
Let's just say he's "an awkward person".  :neutral-face

Once I dreamed about meeting him and was surprised he was kind to me.  XD
It's never enough...

SueC

Now that is hilarious. :lol:  I've only had two dreams involving music figures.  One I related at the end of that Cure essay, about having a wardrobe malfunction (those dratted pyjama bottoms) and a surprise knock at the door and most confusingly it was the Smiths (not as in the band with the lead singer who, had I taught him, would have spent a lot of time removing bubble gum from the underside of desks, but as in Mr and Mrs) - who appeared to be lost, and got invited in for a cup of tea in a sort of reflex reaction because when you don't know what to do, it's good to switch into an available autopilot, and "Would you like a cup of tea?" is a readily available autopilot if you have civilised visitors.  And because they actually wanted a cup of tea (each, presumably, but I couldn't tell you the details because the dream didn't get that far), I found myself walking backwards through the corridor because I had a big rip in my pyjama bottoms, and calling to my husband, "Bre-ett, please put the kettle on, I have to go change my pants!"

The other was a dream I had at age 16, where I was riding my horse from my parents' farm in Western Australia through the Swiss Alps to get to a place called Bunbury, which is a regional centre 80 km from said farm.  I often rode my horse between the farm and Bunbury, through the state forests, but that day the Swiss Alps sort of appeared in the middle of it all, which made for a nice change of scenery.  The reason I was riding to Bunbury is because a U2 concert was being held there, but a strange one - an acoustic gig at a pre-school.  When I got to the gig, I had to find someone to hold my horse, and then when I got in, I started feeling that Bono was attempting to indoctrinate toddlers and that this was inappropriate.  In the dream's grand finale, a toilet appeared in the middle of the auditorium, and don't ask me why, but I sat on it, and then became extremely embarrassed by the lack of cubicle, and trying to work out how to get upright again without making things even worse...  :'(
SueC is time travelling

Ulrich

Quote from: SueC on December 13, 2019, 11:52:21... I started feeling that Bono was attempting to indoctrinate toddlers and that this was inappropriate.  In the dream's grand finale, a toilet appeared in the middle of the auditorium...

Nice dream(s)!  :lol:
I think this part might bear the meaning that Bono talks a lot of shite...
It's never enough...

chemicaloverload

Quote from: Ulrich on December 13, 2019, 17:37:27
Quote from: SueC on December 13, 2019, 11:52:21... I started feeling that Bono was attempting to indoctrinate toddlers and that this was inappropriate.  In the dream's grand finale, a toilet appeared in the middle of the auditorium...

Nice dream(s)!  :lol:
I think this part might bear the meaning that Bono talks a lot of shite...

Hahaha I had this convo the other day- Bono seems to have this effect on people! I can't say I've listened to a word he said, I'm clueless where the hatred is stemming from?! Ignorant more likely.
Life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves

Ulrich

Quote from: chemicaloverload on December 13, 2019, 19:57:04I'm clueless where the hatred is stemming from?!

U2 were quite alright (for a while at least), I've listened to some stuff...
Bongo (as some like to call him) has been "preaching" at times on stage (or off stage too), which kinda went on some people's nerves.
It's never enough...

SueC

OMG, @Ulrich, I'd never connected the toilet with that before!  :-D   :lol:

I can't believe I never thought of that before.  To me, that was just typical anxiety dream material - stemming from teenage days, where few things felt less potentially embarrassing than being caught with your pants down, or being walked in on while on the toilet.  Whereas in maturity, I don't care about that very much, so it no longer figures as an anxiety element in my dreams.  I mean, I've not dreamt about toilets in a long time.  The wardrobe malfunction thing in that more recent dream might be vaguely related, but I think that was more about awkwardness, and what you might inflict upon others, rather than what might happen to you.

@chemicaloverload, U2 was my favourite band when I was a teenager, along with The Waterboys.  Bono has gone on to have a grating effect on me, but Mike Scott hasn't.  I still like a lot of their music, it's just this allergic thing that happens while watching interviews with the dude, and my husband has it too.  I asked him to quantify and it's just the impression that he takes himself a bit seriously, and that he thinks he knows more than he actually does and doesn't come across as someone who regularly challenges their own world view. "Plus," says he, "rightly or wrongly, his glasses and the way he oils his hair back like a Mafioso just goes with all that perceived self-importance.  The other people in the band seem fine - like regular dudes."  (This was from a group interview we watched when U2 were in Australia recently.)

...on a farm, we might say, "Go talk to the mushrooms!" when someone is talking BS...

When I was studying, a recurring anxiety dream was that I overslept on exam day.  I'd wake up at 10am and realise with cold horror that my exam started an hour ago and all the implications of that.  Ever had that dream?

@Ulrich, do you have anxiety dreams about the natural world?  ;)  :winking_tongue

PS:  This "like" thing still causes me consternation - just because I didn't click it doesn't mean I don't like it... when in Rome... Sometimes I think life would be simpler without a like button...
SueC is time travelling

Ulrich

Talkin' of musicians who aren't exactly "beloved" all over the world, I give you: Metallica. (They got some flak for sueing their grandmothers for downloading...) "They're not honest guys." is one of the kindest quotes I found...

Quote from: SueC on December 13, 2019, 22:28:51Ulrich, do you have anxiety dreams about the natural world?  ;)  :winking_tongue

Well, what else can I say to this, but: "go talk to the mushrooms!"...  :P

(I guess you won't "like" this post now, huh?) :1f633:
It's never enough...

SueC

There you go, now I've gone and liked everything on this illustrious thread.  :lol:

"Go talk to the mushrooms!"  is a good one.   :cool   Imagine how the mushrooms of this world would grow if certain people talked to them.  :angel

SueC is time travelling

piggymirror

From the series "Musicians and, erm... looks"

Nick Cave circa 1983.





Jarvis Cocker circa 1983.






David Bowie circa (I believe) 1990.






Any thoughts?

SueC

Thought 1:  Unless Nick Cave (and Robert Smith) slept suspended from the ceiling like bats when they had these hairstyles, this is not how they would have looked when they got out of bed in the morning (or should that be evening :angel).

I will have other thoughts later, but meanwhile, here's a good question - apologies about the poor audio - better audio of this track is on YT but not with the clip which so fits the purpose...


...and I just realised that's a repeat, but what the heck. :)
SueC is time travelling

Ulrich

It's never enough...