So, call me crazy (really, feel free), but I can't hear the difference between "To Wish Impossible Things" (the song I decided to test this on) encoded at MP3 320kb/s and the same song in Apple Lossless.
Maybe I've got a banana in my ear, but if the difference isn't noticeable, then what's the point?
try it at 192 or 128. also, play two songs consecutively. that little click between the songs. that's one big difference. gaps blow.
there are no gaps when you use ogg.
@Bloodflower9: if you are using a good encoder and choose a high bitrate you won't hear a difference. you can just see it. :roll:
Quote from: cult_hero on November 05, 2006, 14:03:51
there are no gaps when you use ogg.
@Bloodflower9: if you are using a good encoder and choose a high bitrate you won't hear a difference. you can just see it. :roll:
gapless ogg actually only confuses things more because a great number of people seem to think everthing gapless must be lossless and then trade it as lossless, maybe also upload it to trackers for lossless. it's of course perfectly ok with me, what format people prefer in their personal collections, but i'm just a bit bored with receiving this gapless ogg in trades because a trade like that is as good as if i just sent over my shows to someone for free.
so in this respect, ironically mp3 is actually "better" in this respect because at least most people usually notice those microgaps and know what they are dealing with then.
Quote from: japanesebaby on November 05, 2006, 14:26:08so in this respect, ironically mp3 is actually "better" in this respect because at least most people usually notice those microgaps and know what they are dealing with then.
Yeah, it's almost a blessing that mp3 has this telltale sign, or the problem of people trading lossy shows would be even worse. As for OGG, it beats mp3 if you don't want gaps, but I don't think there's any real difference in sound quality unless you use something like 500 kbps. And if you're going to get that extreme, why not just use FLAC?
Quote from: cult_hero on November 05, 2006, 14:03:51you won't hear a difference. you can just see it. :roll:
But if you're actively trading, it matters. I don't know many serious collectors seeking OGG files. 8)
So the whole difference is the little gap between songs? Really? I suppose that's fine if I'm listening to Sgt. Pepper, but unless one track fades into another, then is it even worth my time? And who cares what you see? This is music, isn't it? I'm a little disappointed; I wanted to think that by changing to a lossless format, I would be able to enjoy the music more. But I just can't tell the difference. Now it just seems like a huge waste of space.
Well, MP3 wiyh high bitrate have no problems... the proble are the whole universe of mp3 shows in low bitrate circulating on the net...
:rocker
Quote from: Darth Blood on November 05, 2006, 20:23:47
Well, MP3 wiyh high bitrate have no problems... the proble are the whole universe of mp3 shows in low bitrate circulating on the net...
:rocker
exactly. bloodflower9, try downloading some of the poorest quality 128 kb/s mp3 show over from the mp3 section, then get your hands on the lossless copy of the same thing and compare those: it's be like black and white. and the extra problem with the ages old mp3 file sets is that judging from their horrific quality, they've been converted to wav>mp3>wav>mp3 etc. dozens of time which has caused unimaginable damage to the quality - so '128 kb/s' isn't even a proper description anymore, they are far inferior than that. sure, if you take some pristine lossless recording and convert that to 320 kb/s you probably won't
hear much anything different. but convert to 128 kb/s and you'll start noticing something. then do that mp3>wav>mp3>wav converstion about 20 times and compare again. etc. every time you do the mp3>wav>mp3 thing the sound quality notable degenerates, because it's being compressed again and again and again and....
because amazingly many of these mp3 file sets that are still being uploaded today originate from the early stages of internet/mp3s, so they are really old and were encoded with pretty bad encoders somewhere in the beginning of time. and they were re-compresesd to death a million times.
try this and you'll see it's not something only visual.
besides, the point made about trading is important, even to those people who don't trade themselves. because how do new shows, maybe some shows that have been hidden for years and years, how do some people manage to finally get then and and put them into wider circulation, to share with wider community? well, at least it won't happen with mp3s or ogg. tapers and people with good collections aren't interested getting some compressed file sets in exchange for their masters.
(http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/eek4i_2.gif)
Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33
(http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/eek4i_2.gif)
Actually, there's quite a bit of logic stated here.
Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33
(http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/eek4i_2.gif)
hmm well, maybe just think of it as if i personally just find lossy formats like ogg etc. to be a little bit... hmmm...
"undemanding"? ;)
i mean, at least personally i don't see it primarily as a question of anyone's mental well-being or something related. i really don't think the issues here were never quite that extreme...
Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33
(http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/eek4i_2.gif)
It looks like the John Cage composition "3.23"
Quote from: bluewater on November 17, 2006, 11:38:54
Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33
(http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/eek4i_2.gif)
It looks like the John Cage composition "3.23"
You mean 4'33"? :lol:
Quote from: bluewater on November 18, 2006, 20:03:48
Quote from: lostflower4 on November 17, 2006, 11:59:41
Quote from: bluewater on November 17, 2006, 11:38:54
Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33
(http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/eek4i_2.gif)
It looks like the John Cage composition "3.23"
You mean 4'33"? :lol:
No, I mean the edited version.
I have an extended remix. Wanna trade?
However, I'm only looking for a lossless copy. :smth001
Quote from: lostflower4 on November 18, 2006, 20:09:14
Quote from: bluewater on November 18, 2006, 20:03:48
Quote from: lostflower4 on November 17, 2006, 11:59:41
Quote from: bluewater on November 17, 2006, 11:38:54
Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33
(http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/eek4i_2.gif)
It looks like the John Cage composition "3.23"
You mean 4'33"? :lol:
No, I mean the edited version.
I have an extended remix. Wanna trade?
However, I'm only looking for a lossless copy. :smth001
I´m not quite sure if mine runs at correct speed... And could be generations
away from the master...
Quote from: bluewater on November 19, 2006, 14:42:04
Quote from: lostflower4 on November 18, 2006, 20:09:14
Quote from: bluewater on November 18, 2006, 20:03:48
Quote from: lostflower4 on November 17, 2006, 11:59:41
Quote from: bluewater on November 17, 2006, 11:38:54
Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33
(http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/eek4i_2.gif)
It looks like the John Cage composition "3.23"
You mean 4'33"? :lol:
No, I mean the edited version.
I have an extended remix. Wanna trade?
However, I'm only looking for a lossless copy. :smth001
I´m not quite sure if mine runs at correct speed... And could be generations
away from the master...
hmm, this could be a bogus show... at least that's what i've heard. i mean sure there's a bunch of different recordings of this circulating but it's pretty hard to prove the authenticity of any of those... unless either of you two taped it yourself?
Quote from: japanesebaby on November 19, 2006, 16:48:10
Quote from: bluewater on November 19, 2006, 14:42:04
Quote from: lostflower4 on November 18, 2006, 20:09:14
Quote from: bluewater on November 18, 2006, 20:03:48
Quote from: lostflower4 on November 17, 2006, 11:59:41
Quote from: bluewater on November 17, 2006, 11:38:54
Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33
(http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/eek4i_2.gif)
It looks like the John Cage composition "3.23"
You mean 4'33"? :lol:
No, I mean the edited version.
I have an extended remix. Wanna trade?
However, I'm only looking for a lossless copy. :smth001
I´m not quite sure if mine runs at correct speed... And could be generations
away from the master...
hmm, this could be a bogus show... at least that's what i've heard. i mean sure there's a bunch of different recordings of this circulating but it's pretty hard to prove the authenticity of any of those... unless either of you two taped it yourself?
I performed and recorded my version myself on an old analog Walkman. The tape is slightly hissy, and it's gotten stretched out over time. Total running time is 5:01 now. :?
Quote from: cult_hero on November 14, 2006, 13:52:33
(http://www.my-smileys.de/smileys2/eek4i_2.gif)
It looks like no progress in the SETI project either..
Obviously we need a trial. To know what an earth happened to silence. This trial
will be similar to the case in "Is lossless really a lossless - a test" made by lf4, who is the judge, and you are the jury. And no one will be tortured.
-bluewater
i wish more shows were around in mp3, i dont want huge files when i dont burn any of them. people get way too anal over file extensions, just listen to the damn thing
Quote from: farquad92 on December 01, 2006, 17:37:55
i wish more shows were around in mp3, i dont want huge files when i dont burn any of them. people get way too anal over file extensions, just listen to the damn thing
Do you say there's no mp3 shows around? I think there's enough mp3 shows to start with,
but they are no longer supported officially by curefans.com. So you have to look elsewhere. We don't fight against mp3, but against converting shows to mp3 format. Why?
Well, if someone encodes a show to mp3 format, almost everyone at curefans.com wants it
in lossless form. Thus uploading a mp3 show always raises the question, where's the
lossless thing, that is lower generation? After all, encoding to mp3 always
drops the technical quality (difference you don't necessary hear but collectors
and traders search for it) to zero levels so the show can't be touched or remastered
anymore. And uploading a show needs to be rewarded every time by those who
want it in lossless for technical reasons, so it's unfair that the show is not
uploaded in lossless, both for the uploader and the collectors.
There are people like you and even i who only listen to the
shows and don't collect them, so i understand your point very well, but the shows
here are not only to listen to, also to collect, in as low gen and as little
encoding done as possible.
-bluewater
well said, bluewater.
and by the way, happy birthday today - hyvää syntymäpäivää :smth006 toivottavasti oot viettänyt hauskan päivän tänään!
and yes: whatever happened to silence? that's a good question... and about the trial: so you'll guarantee it, no one will be tortured? that sounds too good to be true...
about that piece of music: interesting to listen and compare the variety of formats here...
http://interglacial.com/~sburke/stuff/cage_433.html
but... notice anything? oh yes: they all are fakes - beware! :smth011
(lostflower4: i'm grown interested in your 4'33 master now - may i send you my rare trades list and maybe we could... to trade...?)
Quote from: japanesebaby on December 05, 2006, 19:54:39
about that piece of music: interesting to listen and compare the variety of formats here...
http://interglacial.com/~sburke/stuff/cage_433.html
What a wonderful birthday present, John Cage 4´33! Thanks!
-bw
Quote from: bluewater on December 07, 2006, 21:15:47
Quote from: japanesebaby on December 05, 2006, 19:54:39
about that piece of music: interesting to listen and compare the variety of formats here...
http://interglacial.com/~sburke/stuff/cage_433.html
What a wonderful birthday present, John Cage 4´33! Thanks!
-bw
you're welcome! ;)
Quote from: japanesebaby on December 05, 2006, 19:54:39(lostflower4: i'm grown interested in your 4'33 master now - may i send you my rare trades list and maybe we could... to trade...?)
Sorry, but I don't trade my recording.
Anyway, the MIDI version is a stronger performance...
Quote from: lostflower4 on December 09, 2006, 16:25:40
Quote from: japanesebaby on December 05, 2006, 19:54:39(lostflower4: i'm grown interested in your 4'33 master now - may i send you my rare trades list and maybe we could... to trade...?)
Sorry, but I don't trade my recording.
hey why do you even bother mentioning it then? ???
Quote from: lostflower4 on December 09, 2006, 16:25:40
Anyway, the MIDI version is a stronger performance...
i agree... so much energy there! :rocker :lol:
Quote from: japanesebaby on December 09, 2006, 16:33:18
Quote from: lostflower4 on December 09, 2006, 16:25:40
Quote from: japanesebaby on December 05, 2006, 19:54:39(lostflower4: i'm grown interested in your 4'33 master now - may i send you my rare trades list and maybe we could... to trade...?)
Sorry, but I don't trade my recording.
hey why do you even bother mentioning it then? ???
Quote from: lostflower4 on December 09, 2006, 16:25:40
Anyway, the MIDI version is a stronger performance...
i agree... so much energy there! :rocker :lol:
I think Caley doesn´t want to trade for same reasons that i don´t.
Any change or edit destroys the idea completely so we are embarrassed about
those edited/ wrong speed versions. And i think the 4´33 caley has is a speed corrected version only, not the original thing that has now uploaded for FREE by you
and i also think that the .mid version is
the definitive version of this show. Of course i do a trade, any day, but not
to the bootleg versions of 4´33. I could do a trade for a cure show any day.
-bw
Quote from: japanesebaby on December 05, 2006, 19:54:39
but... notice anything? oh yes: they all are fakes - beware! :smth011
Fake or real... Hmmmm....
This is a serious question. It involves religion and other deep matters. People fall under 2 different groups
1- those who say any attempt to record john cage 4´33 results in fake recording, these
people say the original composition exists only in the composers head and by nature
the composition is such that it is impossible to record any performance of it.
2- those who see john cage 4´33 everywhere and these people think just the opposite -
the original composition exists everywhere but it´s impossible to hear it. These
people give a mystical and medieval meaning to the composition and hear it
by their heart, not by their ears. They also say that people who make fake recordings
of the composition know what they are doing and thus they bless also the fake versions as a real thing.
Thus the originality of the recordings you uploaded is a subjective question. I think
they are original and you think they are fake :) :smth020
-bw