I keep everything that is blue, and everything else i burn.
LOL, ok then!
Quote from: bluewater on August 10, 2008, 13:52:16
I keep everything that is blue, and everything else i burn.
Does that mean you always try to keep your body the coldest possible or otherwise ask someone to beat you up? :-D
It says in the lyrics "the fire is almost out and there's nothing left to burn." I think there's always things left to burn.
But my fire doesn't burn.
So far i haven't burned many things. I hate the world sometimes, the wars and everything.
Quote from: bluewater on September 05, 2008, 10:03:33
It says in the lyrics "the fire is almost out and there's nothing left to burn." I think there's always things left to burn.
Yeah, but Robert is talking about his own creative fuel there. He is confessing he is almost out of it, so there is "nothing left to burn".
Otherwise, of course there are always things left to burn in the world. As long as the world exists, that is. I just don't think that pyromania is the kind of attitude that is well tolerated by society... :-D
Quote from: bluewater on September 05, 2008, 10:03:33
It says in the lyrics "the fire is almost out and there's nothing left to burn." I think there's always things left to burn.
But my fire doesn't burn.
So far i haven't burned many things. I hate the world sometimes, the wars and everything.
i think there are some people who can use the world to feed their own fire (like: "i used to feed the fire"). i always thought some people seem to manage it because they had certain amount of selfishness. a steady belief that the world was there for them, no matter what. to use it to their own purposes and their own ends (whether creative work or simple for staying alive, to live on...).
i'm not sure i have never been able to perceive the world like this, rather like the other way round. like the world around you always uses you, to feed its own fire. you never had any fire within you, the world was the fire that always consumed everything.
which can make things rather complicated if you run out of fuel. what does the world do with you if you don't have anything left, for the world to burn? you can end up useless - and what then?
then you just might end up feeling like "i'm gonna burn this whole world down" - but how?
because the world itself always was the fire and how exactly do you burn fire? i've yet to find out.
Quote from: japanesebaby on September 05, 2008, 12:28:13
[then you just might end up feeling like "i'm gonna burn this whole world down" - but how?
because the world itself always was the fire and how exactly do you burn fire? i've yet to find out.
Well, in that case, if you really want revenge on the world, the most reasonable thing would probably be DROWN the fire of the world in a GREAT FLOOD. Biblical style. :twisted:
Quote from: revolt on September 05, 2008, 12:59:21
Quote from: japanesebaby on September 05, 2008, 12:28:13
[then you just might end up feeling like "i'm gonna burn this whole world down" - but how?
because the world itself always was the fire and how exactly do you burn fire? i've yet to find out.
Well, in that case, if you really want revenge on the world, the most reasonable thing would probably be DROWN the fire of the world in a GREAT FLOOD. Biblical style. :twisted:
well ok, but actually i was trying to be serious there, fire being a metaphor for the way the world can consume you, eat you up. so it's not a fire/water thing. and sure biblical flood is a metaphor too, but of very different kind.
and i wasn't planning a revenge on the world. i don't think that's possible to achieve. people who do that only destroy themselves.
Quote from: japanesebaby on September 05, 2008, 13:57:46
Quote from: revolt on September 05, 2008, 12:59:21
Quote from: japanesebaby on September 05, 2008, 12:28:13
[then you just might end up feeling like "i'm gonna burn this whole world down" - but how?
because the world itself always was the fire and how exactly do you burn fire? i've yet to find out.
Well, in that case, if you really want revenge on the world, the most reasonable thing would probably be DROWN the fire of the world in a GREAT FLOOD. Biblical style. :twisted:
well ok, but actually i was trying to be serious there, fire being a metaphor for the way the world can consume you, eat you up. so it's not a fire/water thing. and sure biblical flood is a metaphor too, but of very different kind.
and i wasn't planning a revenge on the world. i don't think that's possible to achieve. people who do that only destroy themselves.
It seems that I get serious when you're talking unimportant things and then chose the humouristic approach when you're being really serious. Am I twisted or what? ;)
Anyway, if the world is consuming you, you can always chose to isolate yourself from the world. If not in physical terms, than in spiritual ones. It's a possibility, at least.
And of course, the attempt to destroy the world will always ultimately result in self-destruction. Specially if it actually succeeds. :-D
Cure has made everything to make the world a better place and nothing else they can do. If they don't have creative fire anymore perhaps they do this for charity. There is another fire also - to make the world a better place or to make at least one people feel better in the world. So i think cure has made music for their fans only recently. This is actually a crisis in me being a curefan, i admit.
Creative fire that doesn't do anything good to anyone doesn't intrest me at all. So i have no destructive thoughts against myself or or anyone else or anything in society.
(Actually I'm talking about blu-ray technology here.) :-D
Quote from: bluewater on September 05, 2008, 19:01:21
(Actually I'm talking about blu-ray technology here.) :-D
blue-ray haha, should have guessed that...
but since we were at it:
Quote from: bluewater on September 05, 2008, 19:01:21
Creative fire that doesn't do anything good to anyone doesn't intrest me at all.
i've come to be convinced that the only excuse for any art, the only reason that "justifies" any creative work, is that the artist feels it's absolutely necessary top create what he/she is creating and there's simply no other option for him/her than to create that art. therefore all true art rises from more or less completely selfish reasons, nothing else. any artist who says his motivation to create art is because he wants to create something for someone else than himself is either a liar or not a true artist - because he could then just as well be a salesman or something. the true artist has no other choice to exist than through /the creative process) of his art.
(off-topic (so it seems now ;)): i do admit having destructive thoughts but i don't want/need anyone to "council" me about that because i'm convinced that it's impossible to ever "help" other person that way, even if the intentions were all true and honest and good.)
We need to create hell fire so we cannot ever go there. Never to be silent and tortured.
It says in the lyrics "but the mountain never moves". But I am the mountain, and i moved.
(This will look like a blog but i don't mind.)
People are like mountains they don't easily move the mountain, which is their beliefs. Do people expect art to move the mountain, change other peoples beliefs? If they do think it can change they are wrong, it never can move. I think art is at it's best a process of approaching something called "border fire" a mental image of what is on the other side of the border where we can never go. It is giving the otherside for people who haven't been there observing it.
So how can art make any people feel better in this world? Because it is a tool for people to use for their own needs. To start burning other things. Opposite to the things the artist burns or burning same things?
I think art is for making people to burn the same things that artist burns. So if the artist somewhere between the lines starts burning religion, i throw the art away if i believe in what the artist burns. Or do i do so. Well.
Artist creates art for himself and people transform it into something it originally is not meant for. So is all art is like lying, and cheating? Created for egoist reasons? Can a person without ego create art? For me art is only lying if it's not devoted to God - in the end. Because it can't change any people's mountain, move anything in belief - level. It also cannot move the belief that the world is any better place than what it is. This is why i in fact hate all music that tries directly to make the world a better place, like U2, Rem, "everything is fine, la-la-la" music.
I think we have to burn all art - and burn our creativity completely out of fire, nothing to burn - level. Then we discover another world where the fire is just starting to burn. But this in fact means going insane in world's eyes.
But art can move feelings - so is the art created to making the world a better place or not? Make someone else feel better, for a while. Faith and art are opposite things. This is why i find it funny that a cure album is called faith. And i think this is why it's difficult to enjoy art that is devoted to God or Supreme Being or Creator or Lord if one doesn't believe in the same thing. And someone who thinks he is all those things himself cannot do one thing - create really anything. Or the opposite, create everything the supposed Supreme Being cannot do? Like create money and sex?
So a person like me who has faith and listens to cure's faith album sometimes has a feeling like the fire is really burning inside you, the burning of a completely opposite mental image, the burning of the world. So faith is really like gospel record, but opposite gospel, in the end reaches the same level, spirituality, which means burning of the world. And pornography then starts burning "hell" creates the border fire, and i think that's why the artists burned themself out of the fire creating it. So they used drugs and some people use faith as a drug when listeing to cure's music, like i do.
Quote from: japanesebaby on September 05, 2008, 19:17:32
(off-topic (so it seems now ;)): i do admit having destructive thoughts but i don't want/need anyone to "council" me about that because i'm convinced that it's impossible to ever "help" other person that way, even if the intentions were all true and honest and good.)
Well, you know, I wasn´t really giving you advice. I don't have that pretension. I was only offering some possibilities, at least in the scope of this discussion. I believe there are many ways one person can help another, even if on an unsconscious level (that is, even if the "helped" person is not really conscious of this) and even if helping was not the initial intention of the one who actually ends helping the other. So maybe advice is not the best way to do it, maybe simply wanting to do it might be reason enough to fail, but sometimes things like that do happen. That's what I think, anyway.
Quote from: bluewater on September 08, 2008, 09:25:12
For me art is only lying if it's not devoted to God - in the end. Because it can't change any people's mountain, move anything in belief - level. It also cannot move the belief that the world is any better place than what it is. This is why i in fact hate all music that tries directly to make the world a better place, like U2, Rem, "everything is fine, la-la-la" music.
You see, a person who creates art devoted to God is only lying to himself... The thing is, he does it probably so perfectly (the lying) that he himself truly believes in it.
Anyway, the music of U2 or REM is not, in general, trying to make the world a better place. That might be the intention of Bono, Stipe & co. as a sort of general attitude towards the world, a thing they promote through their participation in Amnesty International, talking with world leaderss and what not, but in general, I don't think it's fair to say that their MUSIC has "making the world a better place" as their main motive. Also, U2 have much music that is quite dark and REM, at least before they came maintream stars, were too obscure in they lyrics to be able to have any sort of impact on that level.
Quote from: bluewater on August 10, 2008, 13:52:16
I keep everything that is blue, and everything else i burn.
Now I have that Eiffel 65 song stuck in my head...
Im blue ba da dee ba da dii la da dee la da bii blue da ba dii
Guys, I do have a real problem because i started this thread. Whatever way i express it it doesn't come out right. But I really cannot be a cure fan anymore for religious reasons, my soul doesn't find rest in this place. Nothing bad against curefans but a personal reason and i try to express it the best way I can. I'll be devout Christian now, laugh it or not, sometimes I'll listen to cure and pray for you or something.
See you again,
Bye,
Bluewater
Quote from: bluewater on September 09, 2008, 06:51:40
But I really cannot be a cure fan anymore for religious reasons,
Now, that's truly one thing that I would never expect to hear anywhere... :shock: I mean, Robert might be a non-believer, but it's not like he has been promoting Satan or whatever in his music... I think that you must be either joking or else probably are a very confused person. To each their own, anyway.
Quote from: bluewater on September 09, 2008, 06:51:40
and pray for you or something.
Please don't bother, you would only be wasting your time... :twisted:
The world is a confusion, and I'm walking confusion. Anyway, now I'm in peace. I try to find my way home but only stars on the sky show me way back home, so I go to the stars to find the one in the stars to guide me back home and there was God guiding me, and God is waiting me at home also. So the sentence "insipire in me the desire in me to never go home" also is confusion. The emotional process gets too complicated, one cannot worship two things, so I cannot be a fan for Robert Smith anymore. Something happened and i changed, like an accident. Someone saved me from the accident, but it wasn't Robert Smith, get it? Well, I'm gone now, in peace, Bye again. Love you all,
Bluewater
Quote from: bluewater on September 09, 2008, 13:21:54
one cannot worship two things,
Well, maybe so. But can't you like The Cure's music without worshipping Robert Smith? Being a music fan doesn't necessarily mean you worship the people who make that music... I for myself certainly do not worship Mr. Smith (or any other human being, for that matter). Love would be a different matter, I suppose. Because you can love someone or somethinhg without worshiping them, or can't you? Otherwise married christians or jews or muslims would either have to not love their wives / husbands or else they would be permanently betraying their god...
I listen to mostly ambient electronic music nowadays. The cure's fanhood makes me feel more or less homesick, it is like playing with emotions in a completely wrong way, destructive way towards the basic truths about being at my (spiritual) home. This music to me when listened to as a fan is like a guide that takes you by the hand and says, "i'll take you home, you're lost", but in the end it leaves you even deeper in some forest, more lost than you originally were.
So in the end it makes me feel they more or less burn religion like some witchcraft thing so i have to throw it away as a fan, anti-christian music that gives me physical feeling of sickness, like having a bad hangover and headache. I can listen to it so i don't care about it at all, but then I'm not fan anymore. I wouldn't go to a cure show either, even if they were in our home town or something. It is past life to me.
I really feel a lot better when I publicly say I'm not a fan of Cure's music anymore, and that i found a different truth about my emotional needs.
Speaking of Robert Smith, i consider him as a friend I would hug if I met
and thank for the years when his music belonged to my life, but life changes,
this time forever
Bluewater
Quote from: bluewater on September 09, 2008, 17:09:17
this time forever
an echo and a stranger's hand
colours that flicker in water
a short term effect
(what god is)