Just listened to "Out Of Mind" version from disc 3 of the "Disintegration" deluxe 3CD on amazon.co.uk. For me Robert's voice sounds not like 1989 ... more as a re-sung version from 2009 or 2010. He already done such things on demos of the "The Glove" deluxe vesion. What's your opionion about that?
I agree that it osunds at times very much like a studio re-recording of the vocals. But I'm still not sure if that's the case or just a stellar remastering job.
Here's a review of the remasterd edition by the way:
http://www.reflectionsofdarkness.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7537&Itemid=44 (http://www.reflectionsofdarkness.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7537&Itemid=44)
Quote from: cure89 on May 10, 2010, 08:57:42
Just listened to "Out Of Mind" version from disc 3 of the "Disintegration" deluxe 3CD on amazon.co.uk. For me Robert's voice sounds not like 1989 ... more as a re-sung version from 2009 or 2010. He already done such things on demos of the "The Glove" deluxe vesion. What's your opionion about that?
yes i think it's totally obvious, it's a re-sung version - again. too bad. t least i would have rather heard some genuine stuff from the disintegration era, whether or not it has vocals.
weird. i don't understand why robert has to pretend the vocals are the original ones. :? :?:
Very stange. No problem with that if there would be a statement "vocals re-sung in 2009". I really feel like I've been taken for a fool in a way ...
Quote from: cure89 on May 25, 2010, 09:28:28
Very stange. No problem with that if there would be a statement "vocals re-sung in 2009". I really feel like I've been taken for a fool in a way ...
yes, i feel the same.
i just got my cd copy and it only says: "Out Of Mind - studio rough (guide vocal) 11/88
all the other tracks labeled as studio rough also say "guide vocal", even though they are not resung.
i don't understand robert's idea, why fool the fans? :?:
Is the same as with The Glove deluxe edition. It's so obvious that the vocals are overdubs and the style of singing is so different from 1983/1989. I don't like this "new style" very much ... An instrumental version of "Out Of Mind" would be okay as well.
Quote from: japanesebaby on May 25, 2010, 09:51:41
Quote from: cure89 on May 25, 2010, 09:28:28
Very stange. No problem with that if there would be a statement "vocals re-sung in 2009". I really feel like I've been taken for a fool in a way ...
yes, i feel the same.
i just got my cd copy and it only says: "Out Of Mind - studio rough (guide vocal) 11/88
all the other tracks labeled as studio rough also say "guide vocal", even though they are not resung.
i don't understand robert's idea, why fool the fans? :?:
I don't get it either, it's pretty obvious. "Unfortunately" I don't think Steve Severin will be around this time to give some BS explanation about the old vocals being "enhanced" to sound new. :roll:
And now I'm starting to wonder if some of the other so-called guide tracks here are new, although it's probably just a paranoid idea. ;) Then again, it's hard to be sure on something like Lullaby (whispering) and Delirious Night (just vocal "noises")...
I was even starting to think that maybe the alternate Plainsong had been re-recorded, but in that case I think Robert would have been doing a very good of impression of his younger voice, which I don't think he can do. 8)
Anyway, I'm just glad that it this wasn't a more widespread problem on the rarities disc, and that most of the instrumentals were left alone (as they should be!) :!:
Quote from: lostflower4 on May 26, 2010, 20:30:29
"Unfortunately" I don't think Steve Severin will be around this time to give some BS explanation about the old vocals being "enhanced" to sound new. :roll:
seriously, how stupid do their think their fans are? :roll:
Quote from: lostflower4 on May 26, 2010, 20:30:29And now I'm starting to wonder if some of the other so-called guide tracks here are new, although it's probably just a paranoid idea. ;) Then again, it's hard to be sure on something like Lullaby (whispering) and Delirious Night (just vocal "noises")...
i can't help wondering that either, regardless of whether there's reason for it or not. but when you realize you've been cheated once, it's natural to become suspicious.
and that's really not the feeling i wanted to have when listening to this long-awaited release.... :?
this "guide vocal" stuff has been really really bothering me since i first gave the blue sunshine remaster a good listen. and i'm glad some of you guys seem to agree, since there are definitely cure fans elsewhere who refuse to believe that vocal is new.
i would love to believe it isn't, but it is just so so obvious to me. i don't think it's just out of mind, i think it's definitely last dance and lullaby also.
i would have zero problem with this if it just said that the vocals were from 2009 instead of mismarketing it.
otherwise, enjoying my remaster.
Quote from: ofthedeepgreensea on June 08, 2010, 15:48:19since there are definitely cure fans elsewhere who refuse to believe that vocal is new.
i hear you.
it's pretty odd sometimes, what the power of denial can do. people insist on something because they want to believe it's true.
and god forbid if you say those kind of things aloud on some wrong place/forum - the bashing you get for it, just by voicing the truth.
Quote from: japanesebaby on June 08, 2010, 20:30:54
Quote from: ofthedeepgreensea on June 08, 2010, 15:48:19since there are definitely cure fans elsewhere who refuse to believe that vocal is new.
i hear you.
it's pretty odd sometimes, what the power of denial can do. people insist on something because they want to believe it's true.
and god forbid if you say those kind of things aloud on some wrong place/forum - the bashing you get for it, just by voicing the truth.
So I just found myself listening to Disc 2 of the Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me remaster...
I was really enjoying it, having not heard most of it in at least a year. Then, toward the end I saw the words "rough vocal mix" coming up and my heart sank a little, just out of recent habit. :eek:
And as soon as each of those three tracks started playing, it became immediately obvious that these have all been re-sung as well. :smth011
I can't say why I didn't notice this before, but I do know that my ears have become much keener recently, just from "training" them I suppose. And that can be both a blessing and a curse, obviously. :?
@lostflower4: You are talking about "Disintegration" not "Kiss Me", aren't you?
btw ...
Here's another review. Unfortunately in German only ...
http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/lesenhoeren/The-Cure-sind-immer-noch-Eighties-article922346.html (http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/lesenhoeren/The-Cure-sind-immer-noch-Eighties-article922346.html)
Quote from: cure89 on July 06, 2010, 08:46:21
@lostflower4: You are talking about "Disintegration" not "Kiss Me", aren't you?
The demo versions of A Thousand Hours, Icing Sugar, and One More Time all have re-sung vocals. :oops:
OK :(. Will listen to it today ...
Quote from: lostflower4 on July 06, 2010, 09:06:47
Quote from: cure89 on July 06, 2010, 08:46:21
@lostflower4: You are talking about "Disintegration" not "Kiss Me", aren't you?
The demo versions of A Thousand Hours, Icing Sugar, and One More Time all have re-sung vocals. :oops:
huh :? (i do have to confess i never really gave that bonus disc a proper listen, apart from the live tracks.)
this is surely really poor, having these resung versions on several bonus discs now. it's like he's got into a bad habit.
for the life of me i just can't understand why robert would need to try ad hide the fact that they are resung. it really bothers me for some reason :smth017
(heh at least now i know what to post on the thread "what one question would you ask of robert if you got the chance?" ;))
Quote from: japanesebaby on July 09, 2010, 22:19:16for the life of me i just can't understand why robert would need to try ad hide the fact that they are resung. it really bothers me for some reason :smth017
(heh at least now i know what to post on the thread "what one question would you ask of robert if you got the chance?" ;))
Great idea, I'd love to see the look on his face! :lol:
It really bothers me too, that he's taking his fans for fools like that. And I also don't understand the necessity of it. Assuming some true guide vocals really exist for these songs I think we could forgive him for them being less then perfect as they were DEMOS. And if they don't exist, or are unusable for whatever reason, then why not just release them as instrumentals? It makes no sense at all.
I'm especially curious about the the Glove stuff, whether he really recorded vocals for all the songs back then. But I guess we'll never know, since according to Robert and Steve Severin those were the original vocals. :smth011
Trying to see something positive, and I know I've already said something to this effect before... But I'm very glad that some of my favorite demos on the Disintegration remaster were pure instrumentals (because we know what the alternative is :oops:).
What would have been REALLY awful was if he re-recorded the live soundboard vocals on the recent deluxe versions, including Dallas '89. Can you imagine?
Quote from: lostflower4 on July 10, 2010, 14:33:49
I'm especially curious about the the Glove stuff, whether he really recorded vocals for all the songs back then. But I guess we'll never know, since according to Robert and Steve Severin those were the original vocals. :smth011
As far as I remember, the first one who spoke about Blue Sunshine's remaster was Steven Severin on in website. I was happy to read that by then, even if he warned fans... I can't quote him exactly, it's all based on memory, but he said something like "We will be working soon with Robert on the remaster but still wonder if it will be a 2-CD release, given there certainly won't be enough material to fill in CD #2"... Shame is his site changed and was totally revamped since, and I can't find the info anymore.
More : I remember reading that they had all the difficulties of the world having Jeannette Landray singing because they had no "guide vocal" by then (again, I may be totally wrong, can't find where I read that either...).
Last but not least : Andy Anderson was recently interviewed by the French forum "Apinkdream.org". His statement is rather diplomatic on the vocal demoes : "I have had a listen to the tracks, the only one that sounds like the original album version is "Punish me with kisses" The rest of the tracks I really like them, all other songs have been remixed, (this is what it sounds like to me) I think personally that R&S should do another album, because I think that it is a great sound, Roberts voice sounds really sounds great to me these days. The tracks on the Alice in Wonderland track, I really love too. Also if you need to find out more about the tracks you should try and contact Robert and Steve, because I was only involved in the original recorded album and I think that most of the tracks had a drum machine on them anyway."
So all in all, I was really surprised when I first listened to the demoes. I didn't expect them at all. And the disappointement was greater than the surprise : for sure tvocals were recorded only for the purpose of having a 2-CD release, no doubt.
I have not paid much attention to the other remasters CD # 2. I'll give a listen to the songs you have doubts about. But then again, I wouldn't be surprised you're right saying that some were recorded (at least vocals) just for the sake of having something to fill in the CD.
Fools ?
And by the way : yeah, Entreat Plus sounds like a slaughter... Listen to the synth on "Pictures of you". I don't mind having overdubs on a live capture, that's a thing no-one can avoid. But having an out-of-sync synth on "Entreat Plus" where the original recording sounded good is pretty annoying. Also, on this song, the treatment made to the synth is awful : sounds like all spatializing effects (chrous and delay) have been rubbed off... So I agree the sound of the drums have been badly treated, but what happened to the synth ???
I think this is a very interesting topic that we should slipt in two topics, maybe the new one would be "Why Robert re-sung some songs from the Deluxe editions?" Or maybe you guys have a better idea.
I don't think he's trying to make us fool as the re-sung versions are evident to any fan who knows how Robert's voice was back in the '80s. I'm just surprised that no-one else has noticed that (I have Google a bit and no other site seems to point this out)
Quote from: dsanchez on September 01, 2010, 13:43:31
I think this is a very interesting topic that we should slipt in two topics, maybe the new one would be "Why Robert re-sung some songs from the Deluxe edtiions?" Or maybe you guys have a better idea.
I don't mind about opening another topic. You're the boss. Ahahahhahah !
Quote from: dsanchez on September 01, 2010, 13:43:31
I don't think he's trying to make us fool as the re-sung versions are evident to any fan who knows how Robert's voice was back in the '80s. I'm just surprised that no-one else has noticed that (I have Google a bit and no other site seems to point this out)
Making fools of us is not really the question. Honest people will acknowledge that Robert's voice sounds time irrelevant on some demoes (other fans won't, but then again, they are the ones who claim that "Rob is god"...). What's more annoying is that the songs are labelled as "original studio stuff", which is not the case, for sure.
Now, even rarer. I've a version of "Delirious night" without lyrics... I was pretty surprised to find there were some "lyrics" added on the Disintegration remaster.
Quote from: Adlib on September 01, 2010, 15:25:55
I don't mind about opening another topic. You're the boss. Ahahahhahah !
I'm not the boss, members dictate the direction of a Web forum or the direction of this particular topic ;)
Quote from: dsanchez on September 01, 2010, 13:43:31
Making fools of us is not really the question.
I don't have any original remaster to be honest, but if you have them and the songs are labeled as "original studio" stuff then someone is definitely trying to treat us like fools. And I was asking that question because it seems this is the question everyone has been asking themselves. I wonder what was in Robert's mind when he did that :smth017
Quote from: lostflower4 on July 06, 2010, 09:06:47
The demo versions of A Thousand Hours, Icing Sugar, and One More Time all have re-sung vocals. :oops:
These are labelled "Studio alternative remix". I listened to them again. To be honest, I would not be so sure about these ones. The sound treatment of the voice is really weird, for sure (like it's processed in a phasing effect). But they really sound less doubtful than "Blue Sunshine" demoes or this "Delirious night" I talked about.
Quote from: dsanchez on September 01, 2010, 13:43:31
I don't think he's trying to make us fool as the re-sung versions are evident to any fan who knows how Robert's voice was back in the '80s. I'm just surprised that no-one else has noticed that (I have Google a bit and no other site seems to point this out)
i agree it's a very good example of how much people rely on the booklet notes: if it says they are old demos from the 80s, most people buy that and never really ope their ears to really listen. now, i'm not saying people are all dumb if they don't listen and notice. it's more like a good example how much we tend to trust what we read - even "overtrust" it. if it says so in the booklet then we hear it that way too.
written word is in such a high value in our world.