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Tapers and Bloggers. Who's the selfish?

Started by dsanchez, May 27, 2008, 01:19:11

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japanesebaby

Quote from: Steve on June 03, 2008, 20:13:42
But destruction of the original isn't the only reason there.

What really takes the p!ss here is the bare faced audacity of the reply from the guy (is it a guy?).

maybe destruction of the original isn't the only reason - i'd rather say the reason is the "i own the internet i own everything i make the rules i'm the king of the f***ing world me me me" kind of selfishness and lack of respect (of which the destruction of original is one example!) that is a major reason there.
and at the end of the day, the result is the same: tapers withdrawing from sharing seems to generate more selfish pricks doing selfish acts like this and more selfish pricks means more tapers might withdraw from sharing.

these issues are difficult to talk about in the web for several reasons. for instance, pretty much every time a taper tries to explain why he doesn't share/circulate his recordings (even if it was for some completely unselfish reasons, NB) there're people accusing him for hoarding. and so easily, the best thing for them might even seem to stay completely silent and never even tell anyone they ever taped anything(?). i guess that way everyone would be happy: the taper could tape without anyone bugging him, non-taping people out there would remain happy because they wouldn't even know any better.
and yes, some people do hoard, that does happen: but they usually also those who are pretty active in getting more stuff against their own stuff - it's like "to hoard in order to hoard more" (actually that should sound like a contradiction in terms!). do whatever necessary just in order to get more. a strange attitude. anyway, people who just tape for themselves (because they really just wanted to tape for their own pleasure) are actually not hoarding anything, in the same sense of the word. and how do you motivate such people to share, when there's nothing much in the game for them? difficult. yet it's really easy to unmotivate them even further.

personally i'm not sure which one bugs me more, these disrespectful "i'm the king of the internet" kind of bloggers etc., or people who only act like your friends  simply because they want something from you who want to please you in order to gain something from it. the scene is full of both, unfortunately. and both make me pretty tired.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine


dsanchez

It have been three years since the first recording I made (I actually started to tape in the mid of '90s but I dont know where are those tapes anymore and back then we didnt have this "mp3" problem) and I wanted to say that I have readed/felt tapers and leechers opinions/behaviours during these years.

I came to the conclusion (like Janko wrote above) that to think people will respect our will in the Internet is a little bit silly. Let's face it, when we put something on the Internet, we're putting it for millions of people with different view of things, who don't understand technical differences and so on.

For this reason everytime I tape I don't write anymore "don't do this, do not sell, do not convert mp3". No-one likes to be told "don't do this", no-one likes to get information in a "negative way". Who does?

Since some months ago I started to write down a note about benefits of flac, etc, and that's all. I think is much better. Tapers who don't like mp3 or lossy formats have two choices: they accept how the real "world" in the Internet is, or they simply don't share anything.

I went for the choice one. There are so many things in life more important than caring if someone converted my show to mp3 (by the way they passed "my" Pet Shop Boys Madrid show all over the Internet in mp3 - and I was smiling about :)

Of course I will always try to "educate" people about flac and loseless formats, etc. but that's all. For me is enough a handful of people who thanks about the recording, that satisfies me. Again, there are so many real problems in life that bitching because someone transfered something to mp3 is, in my opinion, a waste of time and not good for health :)

By the way, the Massive Attack show yesterday in Lisbon was awesome and I taped it all. Going to share it later on dimeadozen.org ;)
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

japanesebaby

Quote from: dsanchez on November 23, 2009, 13:56:07
Since some months ago I started to write down a note about benefits of flac, etc, and that's all. I think is much better. Tapers who don't like mp3 or lossy formats have two choices: they accept how the real "world" in the Internet is, or they simply don't share anything.

true, there is so much more important things in life, i couldn't agree more. :)

and the reason i went that other way: it was not because of someone converted something to mp3s or whatever. it's because there are simply too many people out there (or should i say, not too many but people who are simply REALLY LOUD and think that they own the scene and have the right to be bossy towards others) who are amazingly rude, who cheat lie and do basically anything they can to benefit themselves but to give everyone else a finger. even give a finger to people who try to share their stuff. well, sadly this is how the world is, not just the sharing scene.
so like someone else said on taperssection once when this was discussed, as long as you are not hardened enough to take any kind of piss and shit thrown at you even when you're trying to be nice and share, it's better to stay away. because indeed, there are SO much more important things in life than that, than listening to some crap from some out there people you don't even know. just so much more important things to focus on.

and i also don't like the sexist/chauvinistic attitudes i've encountered on dime (some this one sad little guy writing me an insulting "cock tease" song in public, just because of my sex). i never understood what having something dangling between your legs has to do with taping a show properly. but don't ask me, ask that funny little guy. lol

and yes, noone likes it "in a negative way" - i didn't like it when i had to read on another forum people calling me a freak, even when i was trying to share freely (and most of they weren't, by the way). i never cheated those people or tried anything foul with them. i just tried to share my recordings.
so nobody can say that it's just some "real world" you has to accept. because noone has to listen to that kind of stuff - unless we somehow accept that some people just have the right to be rude and to bully others(?). i don't accept that, sorry. if there is no mutual respect, there will be no sharing community - if people thik they are better than others - there will be no sharing community.

so actually, mp3s have nothing to do with all that, people being absolutely rude do. i just don't respect bullies or let them tell me what to do or what not to do.
in the end, it's only their own loss.


ps. david, there is no format called "loseless" - it's loSSless. i think people can just get confused when you keep saying "loseless". :)
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine


dsanchez

Quote from: japanesebaby on November 23, 2009, 19:48:47
and the reason i went that other way: it was not because of someone converted something to mp3s or whatever. it's because there are simply too many people out there (or should i say, not too many but people who are simply REALLY LOUD and think that they own the scene and have the right to be bossy towards others) who are amazingly rude, who cheat lie and do basically anything they can to benefit themselves but to give everyone else a finger. even give a finger to people who try to share their stuff. well, sadly this is how the world is, not just the sharing scene.

I never had any "piss" and "shit thrown" over me as product of sharing something and I don't know how something like this could happen. Of course I have not taped as many shows as many tapers out there, but I just don't understand. I share something, I read the comments, and that's all. Maybe there have been something you have done for this to happen. I don't know? I just don't understand.
Quote from: japanesebaby on November 23, 2009, 19:48:47
so actually, mp3s have nothing to do with all that, people being absolutely rude do

Here I was just pointing out the mp3 thing. People was never rude to me because I shared something (??)

Quote from: japanesebaby on November 23, 2009, 19:48:47
ps. david, there is no format called "loseless" - it's loSSless. i think people can just get confused when you keep saying "loseless". :)

Ok :)
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

crowbi_wan

What's this?  Some conversation?  :shock: 

I'll join in...

Quote from: dsanchez on November 23, 2009, 20:48:42
Quote from: japanesebaby on November 23, 2009, 19:48:47
so actually, mp3s have nothing to do with all that, people being absolutely rude do

Here I was just pointing out the mp3 thing. People was never rude to me because I shared something (??)


One guy was VERY rude to jb after she shared a NIN master.  Not only did the guy upload lossy files after he was instructed no to do so, he then went on this rant god like and even violent rant.  jb was all for sharing until some poor outcomes in the NIN and Cure scenes.  A real shame some douchebags have to ruin it for the fans.  All one has to do is respect the taper's wishes.  Is it really that difficult?   :roll:

Now, my take on converting to lossy has changed as of late.  I used to make those notes about not distributing lossy files and such.  To be honest, I don't care about it anymore.  The way I see it is the artists make both lossless and lossy available for the fans.  They see that some prefer the ease of mp3s, while others remain pure to the traditional means of listening to media.  Why should I as a taper be any different?  If I upload my lossless files to dime, people can get them there.  If someone wants to make things easier for those with crap internet speeds, lack of patience, lack of hard drive space, those that want files to get straight to their ipods, those with no care for lossless for whatever reason, I have no problem with doing that to my recordings.  Before, my big concern was polluting the trading pool.  Well, let's be real here.  How many are trading for something that was torrented?  Okay, maybe a handful do that.  However, there are several free tools people can use to verify they're trading for lossless.  Also, all it takes to get a dime account is a minimal effort.  If one wants the lossless files, they're easy enough to find.  Since my big concern is no longer a concern AND I don't see a difference in the artists offering lossless, my masters are no longer tagged with such a request to not convert.  In fact, I very well may upload mp3s for some shows in the future.  Yes, I still care about quality and would rather convert to 192 so that 128 or lower doesn't get posted.  And if it does, well, why anyone would download that is a head scratcher. 

Please don't confuse my thoughts with what other tapers request :!:  I'm very much in favor of adhering to the requests of tapers.  After all, without those that stand there and press record while you enjoy the show or are sitting at home we'd have nothing.  To those that think they can do what they want without consequences, the consequence is tapers stop sharing.                   

crowbi_wan

Another thing I was thinking about on the lossless/lossy topic that sort of works into my "I don't care" stance.  Isn't using roll-off basically doing the same thing as converting to lossy?  I mean you're not lowering a certain frequency, you've eliminated it!  It's one you can never get back.  Roll-ff is (more or less) an on the fly lossy conversion.  So, why would a taper that uses roll-off write "do not convert to lossy" when he or she just removed a frequency themselves?  :smth017     

dsanchez

Quote from: crowbi_wan on November 24, 2009, 04:44:27One guy was VERY rude to jb after she shared a NIN master.  Not only did the guy upload lossy files after he was instructed no to do so, he then went on this rant god like and even violent rant.

I readed both sides of the story, and altought I'm sorry to say this, I somehow understand why the guy was rude. But anyway, that's not the topic here.

Quote from: crowbi_wan on November 24, 2009, 04:44:27
jb was all for sharing until some poor outcomes in the NIN and Cure scenes.  A real shame some douchebags have to ruin it for the fans.  All one has to do is respect the taper's wishes.  Is it really that difficult?   :roll:

For some people it's. Is like if you would ask: is really that difficult for people to wait for a green light before crossing the street? Yet people cross when they have red light. And there are lot of examples like that, unfortunately.

Quote from: crowbi_wan on November 24, 2009, 04:44:27
Now, my take on converting to lossy has changed as of late.  I used to make those notes about not distributing lossy files and such.  To be honest, I don't care about it anymore.  The way I see it is the artists make both lossless and lossy available for the fans.  They see that some prefer the ease of mp3s, while others remain pure to the traditional means of listening to media.  Why should I as a taper be any different?  If I upload my lossless files to dime, people can get them there.  If someone wants to make things easier for those with crap internet speeds, lack of patience, lack of hard drive space, those that want files to get straight to their ipods, those with no care for lossless for whatever reason, I have no problem with doing that to my recordings.

I couldn't agree more.
2023.11.22 Lima
2023.11.27 Montevideo

japanesebaby

Quote from: dsanchez on November 23, 2009, 20:48:42
Quote from: japanesebaby on November 23, 2009, 19:48:47
and the reason i went that other way: it was not because of someone converted something to mp3s or whatever. it's because there are simply too many people out there (or should i say, not too many but people who are simply REALLY LOUD and think that they own the scene and have the right to be bossy towards others) who are amazingly rude, who cheat lie and do basically anything they can to benefit themselves but to give everyone else a finger. even give a finger to people who try to share their stuff. well, sadly this is how the world is, not just the sharing scene.

I never had any "piss" and "shit thrown" over me as product of sharing something and I don't know how something like this could happen. Of course I have not taped as many shows as many tapers out there, but I just don't understand. I share something, I read the comments, and that's all. Maybe there have been something you have done for this to happen. I don't know? I just don't understand.

like brian said, in the NIN incident was a guy i didn't even know. he just came out of the blue and was really rude and even put f*ck you notes to me in public - after i had just shared a good recording with him, a recording of a show he also went to.
sorry david but i don't understand why you are saying you understand him. if i taped a show he also went to and gave it away for free - what does he to complain about?


about the cure: there were big issues during the 4tour but i guess you didn't noticed because you are not part of the taper scene.

there is this one bunch of long time cure tapers/collectors whom i only ever respected because of their long "career" and their knowledge. during 4tour i only wanted to share my recordings with everyone, with them too - then i read from their private forum all the crap they talk about people like us here on curefans, calling me/us names and laughing. and just making fun of all new tapers there - why? i don't understand. i stopped respecting those people that very moment. that was ugly to read - and no, i did nothing to cause it.  i only respected these people in the beginning and just wanted to share my shows too.
and then later one of them wrote a nasty "c*ck tease" song to me in public, knowing i'm a girl and just wanting to be really rude. seriously, what's wrong with people like that?

i don't understand it as i know these people are 30-40+ years old. it's impossible to respect people who are that childish. grown up people still acting like school bullies. actually i feel sorry for them, because obviously they don't have much else to focus on in their lives then. they've never grown up or learnt one thing in life. those kind of people are sad.


so you implying that i did something to cause it: no i didn't. it's people just coming out of the blue and being nasty - why keep sharing in such environment?
it's true that you cannot make people to "follow rules" in internet - but you could ask people to respect each other at least in some ways, if you are supposed to form some kind of community. otherwise everyone suffers, instead of everyone benefitting. sadly mr Poo(ka), dennning, a*sfa(h)rt & friends are too infantile to understand.


but to be honest, i don't care. to me the (cure) taper scene is just one big sad joke. and i do have more important things to focus on that some silly infantile scene like theirs. :)
there are so much more important things in life so i don't waste my time on sad little people and their sad little games - but i surely don't wish to contribute to their sad little circles either. i feel sorry for them, being so infantile.



Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

japanesebaby

since i write too long messages and people can't bother read (i know), so the point:

it has nothing to do with mp3s or respecting the tapers' rules not to convert to lossy. yes, i would hope that people could do it - simply because the wolrd would be so much NICER if we simply were polite to each other. but true, you can't make people to follow rules because internet is full of people who don't follow any rules in life - people who think they can dictate the rules in anything. internet as a whole is hopeless, true. BUT in more or less closed communities, small circles of people focusing on some specific subject (like let's say the cure taper scene that I was talking about - or like curefans community etc.): i thik you could expect people to act nice because you could expect them to realize that everyone suffers if you act like a douchbag. if someone doesn't understand that, then well he's just a bit dumb, ruining it for others too.
 
it's about not giving in to idiots and not letting them to rule the world and dictate the rules. they think they can, but it's just so easy to just walk away and laugh at them and their little games.
that's the most important point - not to let the bullies rule. :!:
becausethere are just so much more important things in life. :)

and i feel sorry for the sad little bullies, mr Poo(ka) and friends out there somewhere.
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

dsanchez

Quote from: japanesebaby on November 24, 2009, 08:02:48
about the cure: there were big issues during the 4tour but i guess you didn't noticed because you are not part of the taper scene

And I will never be :)

And not because of the problems, because anyway I don't care to form part of a "taper scene". I tape for fun and to make myself and people happy with a nice souvenir of their gig, that's all. Unfortunately I don't feel able to tape a Cure concert as I couldn't be static during all the show (like I was in Massive Attack or other shows), but I certanly respect people who does it for us, Curefans.

Quote from: japanesebaby on November 24, 2009, 08:02:48
so you implying that i did something to cause it: no i didn't. it's people just coming out of the blue and being nasty - why keep sharing in such environment?

I was specifically talking about the NIN incident, which by the way started because of the converting your recording to mp3, etc.
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japanesebaby

Quote from: dsanchez on November 24, 2009, 12:36:16
I was specifically talking about the NIN incident

and i wasn't. :)
i also find myself thinking, why this had to be brought up now anyway? for me it's in the past anyway, i've made my decision and so be it. i posted my view because you posted yours, i have no interest to discuss it further or anything. it makes no difference.
so why need to poke it further, keeping it as an example here? not sure. :?: shouldn't we all really have better things to do? so let's leave this, ok? let's focus on something more important in life.
:)
Ay, in the very temple of Delight
Veil'd Melancholy has her sovran shrine

dsanchez

Quote from: japanesebaby on November 24, 2009, 12:57:18
i have no interest to discuss it further or anything

Certanly me neither. I don't think there's something else to be added.
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