"The Art Of Darkness - The History Of Goth" by John Robb

[Ulrich]

The Art Of Darkness - The History Of Goth - John Robb
https://membranes.bandcamp.com/merch/the-art-of-darkness-the-history-of-goth-john-robb

It is a bit unfortunate timing, as this book is released in the same year as Lol's upcoming book about "goth". See here for more details about his book: http://curefans.com/index.php?topic=9730.0

https://www.nme.com/en_au/news/music/john-robb-on-his-massive-new-goth-book-its-simple-no-bowie-no-scene-3419265

Membranes frontman and journalist John Robb has spoken to NME about his new book detailing the origins and rise of goth.

The monolithic book has taken 10 years to write and looks at artists including Bauhaus, Nick Cave and The Cure and their place in building one of music's most important scenes.

"The Cure said they definitely weren't goth, but for many fans they of course absolutely were, and that inherent contradiction is fascinating," Robb said. "Despite not believing they were goth, they made one of the most iconic goth albums with 'Pornography'. It was a template for many goth bands to follow and a game changer."

[Sacha8]

I've started reading this book a few days ago. Though I've never been exactly a goth (I'm more of a dark wave fan), I was curious to know more about the whole scene and its literary influences, because I've always loved Gothic and dark fiction. That said, discovering that The Doors are considered to be a protogoth band, or that they were even defined as "Gothic rock" by journalists when they first came out, was a bit of a shock. I utterly dislike The Doors and Jim Morrison, to me they are the quintessential "cock rock" band, and Morrison is the epitome of the macho figure which, being a feminist, I've always abhorred and steered clear of. To me, part of the fascination with The Cure and RS in particular lies precisely in the fact that both the music and the look of the band and frontman is "feminine". I don't mean it as a stereotypical concept associated to emotional outburst nor as a slur, of course, but as something liberating and empowering for men who aim at connecting to their most emotional side... 

[Ulrich]

Morrison is the epitome of the macho figure

Nah, that is not how he has been described by those who knew him. (Read some books if you need to know more about him. Or in other words, do not trust things like the Oliver Stone movie...)

However it is well known that The Doors were way "darker" than most other groups famous in the 1960s with their "peace and love" kinda message etc.!
Whether that's considered "goth" is not for me to know though.

...both the music and the look of the band and frontman is "feminine". I don't mean it as a stereotypical concept ... 

I never thought about that, to me the lyrics always made sense in an emotional way, but I never really think about whether they are written from a male or female point of view... (they just made some kind of sense to me, no matter how other people interpret them).

However, when I reconsider and go back to songs they wrote in the 70s and 80s it mostly seems to be "boy & girl" stuff lyrics, like "Boys don't cry", "M" "Just like heaven" etc.

When I first heard them on the radio, I did not even know how the band looked. In my imagination, they looked like Spandau Ballet or any other "pop band" in the mid 80s! 

[Sacha8]

Morrison is the epitome of the macho figure

Nah, that is not how he has been described by those who knew him. (Read some books if you need to know more about him. Or in other words, do not trust things like the Oliver Stone movie...)

However it is well known that The Doors were way "darker" than most other groups famous in the 1960s with their "peace and love" kinda message etc.!
Whether that's considered "goth" is not for me to know though.

Well, I don't like Oliver Stone either... No chance I might change my mind about The Doors, sorry.

[Ulrich]

No chance I might change my mind about The Doors, sorry.

I did not ask you to. But you might change the cliché-driven image of Morrison... He was more of an actor and poet than a rock singer, his "provocations" were often planned (or he was just drunk)...

The Cure covered "Hello I love you" back in 1990 (for a compilation of their US record company). Good choice.

[Sacha8]

Well, it might have been a cliché I guess, but I just don't like the music and his voice... The voice is everything to me, and I prefer "feminine" ones for men, Dave Gahan and Ian Curtis being two of the few exceptions to the rule. Anyway, as far as musical forerunners of goth are concerned, I think glam artists were much more interesting and innovative.

[Ulrich]

Got to say, I used to like Joy Division (back in the late 80s, when I first heard them) and their sound is to me the "starting point" of typical "gothic rock". However nowadays I hardly ever listen to them or other "typical" goth any more...