2007.10.21 Mexico DF - Palacio de los deportes (Mexico)

[hertz32]

there are at least 2 other versions out there, that people who are on dime taped, but will not share with dime people, even though they download frequently from dime (thats a little bit of hypocrisy for you). There is also a 3rd version that this guy from mexico is trying to sell. I think its rare swopper only, except these people are trying to trade for other rare swoppers from guys who do not trade anymore, so they will not have any luck there. By February when they keep playing these songs all over in the setlists in europe, then nobody will really care anyway

Good points.  I wish my computer was not on the verge of dying so I could post some stuff on dime (although, I am quite certain most people have a majority of the shows I've gotten in trades, especially here).  Oh well, when i get a new comp then i will be able to thank properly. 

[sullen]

funny thing is seeder managed to do 185 gigs on dimeadozen download I see on profile, so cant be to bad of an internet connection or it must be on sometimes, thats a lot of activity?

yay for assumptions.

perhaps the seeder once had a different connection in the nearly 3 years of being a dime member?

[j]

funny thing is seeder managed to do 185 gigs on dimeadozen download I see on profile, so cant be to bad of an internet connection or it must be on sometimes, thats a lot of activity?

yay for assumptions.

perhaps the seeder once had a different connection in the nearly 3 years of being a dime member?

For those that haven't noticed, the seed is firing away over at Dime.  Thanks to Sullen for sending me the files.  We are up and running!

[crowbi_wan]

funny thing is seeder managed to do 185 gigs on dimeadozen download I see on profile, so cant be to bad of an internet connection or it must be on sometimes, thats a lot of activity?

yay for assumptions.

perhaps the seeder once had a different connection in the nearly 3 years of being a dime member?

For those that haven't noticed, the seed is firing away over at Dime.  Thanks to Sullen for sending me the files.  We are up and running!

applauds to the both of you 

[j]

there are at least 2 other versions out there, that people who are on dime taped, but will not share with dime people, even though they download frequently from dime (thats a little bit of hypocrisy for you). There is also a 3rd version that this guy from mexico is trying to sell. I think its rare swopper only, except these people are trying to trade for other rare swoppers from guys who do not trade anymore, so they will not have any luck there. By February when they keep playing these songs all over in the setlists in europe, then nobody will really care anyway

Well, now Ernie.  I seriously hope that wasn't directed towards me.  I have uploaded 3 Cure masters of my own (London 06 audio and video, Mexico 20 Oct 2007) plus many other masters of various bands- Hatebreed, She Wants Revenge, Interpol, Buzzcocks, Sepultura, Down, The Church ....the list goes on.  So while some of us aren't old school like you, just because we are grabbing new transfers of shows we already had does not make us hypocrites; rather purists. 

Yes, I recorded night 2 using a Microtrack and an iRiver.  The iRiver's HD failed and I only got about 10 songs, all with skips.  The MT is incomplete as well since the guy that bought my ticket was late to the show.

Knowing that Sullen's show was complete and was close to being offered, I decided not to seed my show.  I also have another version of all 3 nights from a member of this site who is also a member of Dime.  He does not want his recording circulated.  His choice.  There is also a guy that recorded all 3 nights that refuses to torrent his shows because they just end up on the black market in Mexico.  His choice not to do that.

Hypocrisy to me would be your buddy Bert and his precious Mexico recordings.  We all know how close the 2 of you are and that you no doubt have copies.  Maybe you should upload them?

[Pooka]

there are at least 2 other versions out there, that people who are on dime taped, but will not share with dime people, even though they download frequently from dime (thats a little bit of hypocrisy for you). There is also a 3rd version that this guy from mexico is trying to sell. I think its rare swopper only, except these people are trying to trade for other rare swoppers from guys who do not trade anymore, so they will not have any luck there. By February when they keep playing these songs all over in the setlists in europe, then nobody will really care anyway

Well, now Ernie.  I seriously hope that wasn't directed towards me.  I have uploaded 3 Cure masters of my own (London 06 audio and video, Mexico 20 Oct 2007) plus many other masters of various bands- Hatebreed, She Wants Revenge, Interpol, Buzzcocks, Sepultura, Down, The Church ....the list goes on.  So while some of us aren't old school like you, just because we are grabbing new transfers of shows we already had does not make us hypocrites; rather purists. 

Yes, I recorded night 2 using a Microtrack and an iRiver.  The iRiver's HD failed and I only got about 10 songs, all with skips.  The MT is incomplete as well since the guy that bought my ticket was late to the show.

Knowing that Sullen's show was complete and was close to being offered, I decided not to seed my show.  I also have another version of all 3 nights from a member of this site who is also a member of Dime.  He does not want his recording circulated.  His choice.  There is also a guy that recorded all 3 nights that refuses to torrent his shows because they just end up on the black market in Mexico.  His choice not to do that.

Hypocrisy to me would be your buddy Bert and his precious Mexico recordings.  We all know how close the 2 of you are and that you no doubt have copies.  Maybe you should upload them?

He wasn't referring to you. 

You are also assuming Bert is hoarding without knowing his side of the story or whether he's interested in participating in the flood in the near future. Don't forget he was the one who coughed up his side of the Malcolm tape collection to have properly transferred with no DAT lineage for everyone to enjoy through DIME even though he wasn't the one to do it, but that's his participation.

Side note: I helped push the seed with you on Mexico 2 and now there are 20 to 50 seeders hopefully. Anyone else jumping on the torrent will get some silly download speeds. For those El Mercardo Libre el chopo sellers, may you have diarrhea for the rest of your lives for selling the hard work of others.

In addition, a lot of us are well aware of shows being sold once it hits mass distribution, even (our) masters new and old. Bottom line is this stuff will continue to happen but if you let it bug you then all this work with the flood will have gone to waste. Sure JJ won't be too happy if his masters are being sold but if in the end all the cure fans get to hear all the good stuff, isn't that what REALLY counts.

In a way I respect the decision of tapers who don't want to share their recordings online since there are people who profit from it, but in a way when they are caught downloading alongside fans and sellers, one could not help as an outsider wonder....other people took risks I'm sure also knowing it would be sold, why can't others do the same (also to help with the flood).

Case in point, I had the first source of U2 11/16/01 released via trades. Before BT there were SHN and FTP servers with guest logins and next thing you know it was all over ebay and maybe silvered. Of course I was upset but I got over it and don't really care. At least it is out there. Unfortunately part of the hobby, but once you accept the risks don't let it ruin the fun of it.

ASSumptions are dangerous. We're all on the same side. Let's not bicker over semantics.

[Bloodflower]

funny thing is seeder managed to do 185 gigs on dimeadozen download I see on profile, so cant be to bad of an internet connection or it must be on sometimes, thats a lot of activity?

yay for assumptions.

perhaps the seeder once had a different connection in the nearly 3 years of being a dime member?

For those that haven't noticed, the seed is firing away over at Dime.  Thanks to Sullen for sending me the files.  We are up and running!

:roll: Naturally, I gave up hope earlier today and deleted the torrent from my computer, to free up space.

[dsanchez]

Hypocrisy to me would be your buddy Bert and his precious Mexico recordings.  We all know how close the 2 of you are and that you no doubt have copies.  Maybe you should upload them?

Who is Bert? is he a Curefans.com member?

[crowbi_wan]

Hypocrisy to me would be your buddy Bert and his precious Mexico recordings.  We all know how close the 2 of you are and that you no doubt have copies.  Maybe you should upload them?

Who is Bert? is he a Curefans.com member?

A guy that has taped MANY Cure shows.  Hopefully one day he'll release the goods from Mexico '04.

[dsanchez]

Hypocrisy to me would be your buddy Bert and his precious Mexico recordings.  We all know how close the 2 of you are and that you no doubt have copies.  Maybe you should upload them?

Who is Bert? is he a Curefans.com member?

A guy that has taped MANY Cure shows.  Hopefully one day he'll release the goods from Mexico '04.

And is he sharing or sitting over the shows?

[ernest newman]

bert doesnt trade anymore, he is out of the hobby at the current time...He was at download enjoying multiple cocktails (pooka and I can verify it first hand)and not having to tape since he is retired. he is not a dime member, has never downloaded a bittorrent, so he is NOT a grab all day, never seed type..Also, its been clear from day one I will not upload a tape from someone who has told me not to, so your not going to get a DS, AO, etc upload from me. They can make there own decisions as what to do. And if bert ever does decide to get into the BT thing, he will do it on his own time.

You can complain if you want, but Im up to about 40+ cure seeds, and there is less than a handful of people that can claim that..im doing my part

And about the mexican tienda thing, again its fine if you dont want to seed because of that. But think about it, like Pooka says, its going to happen whether you like it or not, it will not be erradicated. Those people are out there, they always have been and always will. As much as many dont want to admit it, bittorrent is still trading in a conceptual way. If everyone didnt want there shows up, but wanted to download all day....There would be nothing to download. BT offers the best solution for the probelm of a band thats been around for 30 year, it allows what is esentially uneven trading. And trust me, new cure tapers- traders and those who just grab 1 good torrent every once in awhile are certainly getting the best end of the deal. Wanted to be a new Cure taper in 1992, or 1996 and it wasnt so easy, if you didnt tape, you were not getting good stuff period. Curefans who have the first 2500 shows (you know the group of about 100 of us that have every single show, so anything thats 1gen better or a tape without a cut in it now is RARE SWOP because its ever so slightly different than the version out there) or whatever the number is through 2005 obviously are not going to expect a newer person to tape 2500 shows to do straight up 1 for 1 trades to get all those shows. If these newer people can help with the entire process, by just putting up the 1 or 2 new ones you do from next years tour, it will further along the flood of 1000+ Cure bittorrents you could see in the next year. Everyone wins, old Cure taper can still get the new shows, and people catching up on years 1-30 can be the benefactors of a flood of old cure shows. If people dont put up the new stuff, just sit on it or try to trade it for vancouver 87 that sounds like it was recorded in a toilet bowl, then the flood ends due to lack on interest and everyone looses.

look at it this way, I conceptually traded Download Festival out to you 2 days after the gig to about 500 people (By the way, for me to make 500 dat clones, 100 of which would have had digital errors, I still wouldnt have gone to post office!!!). That doesnt even include those that downloaded the digital set off alternate sites (which I was totally fine with). Now in the concept of BT being uneven trades, I know I am not getting 500 shows back (which old school way I would have expected 500 shows back, 1 for 1 style)...But if just 5% of the people downloaded the show actually tape one next year, and put it up, then there are 25 more masters out there that I can get and others can as well, a big win win for everybody.I think thats all people like myself, Pooka, Rainer, etc want to see.

sidenote: I was never referring to Jeff in the original post, you have done 150% of what you can and its appreicated. We all have technical issues from time to time and I am well aware having read about them

And I am not sure the point of the Karma thing, but how many of you who are giving me negative Karma or whatever its called, are somehow benefitting from the flood of bittorrents on dime (either on that site or by it being reposted somewhere else), are you really that bitter?

[Pooka]

If Bert did do any trades recently, which I think one of these curefans will say so, it was only on a whim and because he wanted a particular show taped for a band he had an interest in. For a guy who is in retirement to actually get him to do a trade, it would have to be very special indeed. So yes he no longer trades on a regular basis or has time to.

As nice as it would have been for Bert to tape, there were approximately 7 to 8 audio tapers at Download Festival running. Granted a good chunk of them had technical problems (myself included) but in the end at least 3 people got them in their full glory and two of them put it up on DIME, with Ernst being the first one to put it out and of course the best version in the quickest amount of time.

Basically Bert did his time in the 80s and beyond in the Cure taping world. A lot of you have his older masters in some form or another anyway through trickle down trading. The fact that some of the shows got out this way is his contribution nonetheless. Don't forget Ernst did the same, how many of you out there have stuff like Fillmore 2000, Shoreline 2000, San Jose 97, Portland 96 before the upgraded DIME version etc. Likewise I let out a lot of stuff when I was still trading as well.

DIME should not be the only way to prove someone contributed.

I'm not sure Vancouver 87 is what rare swoppers are after. For some reason 2004 is their favorite year, like Mexico 2004, Phoenix 2004, Tampa 2004 JJ DAT and the list goes on. Not long ago it was Xacebo 04 and Villar 04.

Let's not do this for 08 please, especially those taping Europe 2008.

You all know the object of the game, you please a small segment of the Cure DIME flooders like the Rain Man, and more gems from his treasure box will flood out. Everyone wins including you. If you rare swoppers do not get it, I don't know what else to say.

[japanesebaby]

I'm not sure Vancouver 87 is what rare swoppers are after. For some reason 2004 is their favorite year, like Mexico 2004, Phoenix 2004, Tampa 2004 JJ DAT and the list goes on. Not long ago it was Xacebo 04 and Villar 04.

i'll just say that this no swap trend for all those 2004 gigs just never ceases to amaze me - 2004. so much fuss about it all, has been and keeps going on so it seems. wasn't even such a great cure year (either live wise or otherwise).


+because i have a feeling that some sort of general accusations are being thrown into the air here... i'll just add that at least i am not sitting on any secret masters here. the cure hasn't even visited my country ever since WMS which was over ten years ago(!) and sorry i wasn't taping back then because i had no possibilities for it. and as i've never even been to the US in my whole life so no i wasn't taping there in tinley park/phoenix 2004 either.

[dsanchez]

I'm not sure Vancouver 87 is what rare swoppers are after. For some reason 2004 is their favorite year, like Mexico 2004, Phoenix 2004, Tampa 2004 JJ DAT and the list goes on. Not long ago it was Xacebo 04 and Villar 04.

i'll just say that this no swap trend for all those 2004 gigs just never ceases to amaze me - 2004. so much fuss about it all, has been and keeps going on so it seems. wasn't even such a great cure year (either live wise or otherwise).

Agree with japanesebaby. For instance, I've hear this famous "Villar 04" gig and it's probably one of the most boring live shows I'ever hear. Don't know yet why the people was so crazy about it? (of course I understand those who attended the show, but the rest?)

Anyway, best  Cure shows so far are from 1986, 1989, 1992. But that's another subject.

[crowbi_wan]

bert doesnt trade anymore

That is incorrect.

If Bert did do any trades recently, which I think one of these curefans will say so, it was only on a whim and because he wanted a particular show taped for a band he had an interest in. For a guy who is in retirement to actually get him to do a trade, it would have to be very special indeed. So yes he no longer trades on a regular basis or has time to.

This is correct.  I taped a band that I knew Bert to be a fan of.  Turns out he was thinking about coming to town and seeing them, but opted not to since I offered to tape.  Got a nice trade from Bert, and no I am not rare swapping it.  f*ck rare swaps!  At some point I'll probably put it up on dime, though I'm awfully tired of getting bitched at for uploading shows that aren't my masters.  So, if I can track down a dude that was running Sonics and into Belly...  With that said I can respect Ernie's decision to not torrent recordings that aren't his masters or masters that have been acquired.  Your work is appreciated.     For those curious about who I taped for Bert, here's a clip from the gig. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvl3q7uGoUU  That's not my video, I was running audio that night.  Sadly, I went to see The Police the following night when I should have made the trip down I-5 to catch Helios Creed and Chrome in Portlnad.  Thank you Bert for introducing me to this amazing guitarist and band.      

Now, about the '04 shows and this rare swopper thing (and please refrain from EVER calling me a spider!  I am about as unspiderlike as they come).  '04 was NOT my favorite year, just don't care for shitty recordings and would love to hear quality when quality is available. Correction, available in some circles.    It just sucks that Phoenix was taped and remains hidden, same for DATs from Mexico '04.  JJ's Tampa doesn't concern me.  I specifically added some shows (Denver, West Valley City) to my taping schedule in hopes of obtaining some of these hidden recordings.  Ernie told me he was going to the Red Rocks concert and didn't plan to tape.  Was quite pleased that I would be and sort of gave me the passing of the torch speech.  Hey, I'm stoked to be tapping for guys that are out of the hobby, have families, and are unable to travel for whatever reasons.  Just note that I'll have some requests just as you guys do.  But don't fear, I will up my Paris master when I return home a few days after the concert.  Might film that one, instead.  If that goes through I'll torrent that.  Would be nice if others in Europe put up their masters (audio and video).  No need to wait and see if the U.S. guys will share our masters.  I will, so will others.  Like I said earlier, f*ck rare swaps. 

Ah, I diched the iHP and upgraded to an R-9 yesterday and am currently being talked into a Panasonic PV-GS500 3CCD cam : )

Shows I'll be at:

Paris
Chicago (maybe)
Denver
West Valley City
George
Vancouver
Santa Barbara
Los Angeles
San Diego
New York (maybe)